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-   -   Block? Charge? No call? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56446-block-charge-no-call.html)

Clark Kent Thu Jan 14, 2010 03:30am

Block? Charge? No call?
 
Had this play in my game the other day......at half time my partner and I talked about the play and differed on opinions, so I thought I'd get a few additional opinions.

YouTube - BlockCharge1 2010_01_14_00_38_14.avi

Nevadaref Thu Jan 14, 2010 03:35am

PC

Not great mechanics by the crew on the double whistle. Notice the T halfway into his block call. :(
Either that or he's waving off a try that didn't go in.

biggravy Thu Jan 14, 2010 04:09am

Tweet. Offense.

constable Thu Jan 14, 2010 05:51am

i'd say the green dude had legal guarding position- offensive.

constable Thu Jan 14, 2010 05:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Kent (Post 651422)
Had this play in my game the other day......at half time my partner and I talked about the play and differed on opinions, so I thought I'd get a few additional opinions.

YouTube - BlockCharge1 2010_01_14_00_38_14.avi


What did you end up going with? Did you talk about double whistles??

JRutledge Thu Jan 14, 2010 05:58am

PC or nothing. I saw a player fall, but I did not see a lot of contact. Then again the angle was terrible.

Peace

CMHCoachNRef Thu Jan 14, 2010 06:58am

Player Control Foul. Looks like the trail was actually waving off the basket -- likely calling a PC foul. Hard to tell what the lead had. But, since they must have disagreed -- otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it -- the lead must have had a block. The only reason to wave a shot off while still in flight would be for a PC foul. If the lead had a block, well, uh oh. :eek:

I can see a double whistle in this situation since the contact was just on the edge of the lane. Some officials pregame "I have the drive all the way to the basket from my side of the floor (similar to C taking it in 3 Man).

IREFU2 Thu Jan 14, 2010 09:32am

Defender had legal guarding position, contact by the ball handler. Tweet, going the other way!!!!

jdw3018 Thu Jan 14, 2010 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 651446)
Player Control Foul. Looks like the trail was actually waving off the basket -- likely calling a PC foul. Hard to tell what the lead had. But, since they must have disagreed -- otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it -- the lead must have had a block. The only reason to wave a shot off while still in flight would be for a PC foul. If the lead had a block, well, uh oh. :eek:

I can see a double whistle in this situation since the contact was just on the edge of the lane. Some officials pregame "I have the drive all the way to the basket from my side of the floor (similar to C taking it in 3 Man).

He's either getting ready to wave it off and go PC or pound his hips with a block signal. Not sure which.

I've got PC on this. Could see someone going no-call as the defender started backwards and there wasn't a ton of contact, and it appears the shooter may have contacted the defender "off-center" rather than straight on. Contact still appears to be in the torso, however...

Might add: Trail is signaling early when this definitely occurs in L's primary...

GoodwillRef Thu Jan 14, 2010 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 651436)
PC or nothing. I saw a player fall, but I did not see a lot of contact. Then again the angle was terrible.

Peace

I don't see this being a no call...there is a lot of contact and both players hit the floor...either way there has to be a whistle on this play.

fullor30 Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrutledge (Post 651436)
pc or nothing. I saw a player fall, but i did not see a lot of contact. Then again the angle was terrible.

Peace

+1

fullor30 Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 651424)
PC

Not great mechanics by the crew on the double whistle. Notice the T halfway into his block call. :(
Either that or he's waving off a try that didn't go in.

Or the start of a made three........!

Ignats75 Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:19am

The angle is bad from the stands. I have a charge as does alot of others...BUT. Can't tell if the defender is bailing out early (flopping) and if the contact is square in the chest (charge) or contact is slight along the defenders right side, while he is bailing (no call).

But initial call is OFFENSE! <punch-point>

representing Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:20am

in my honest opinion, it looked like a block. Take a closer look, the player with the ball picked up the dribble and just at that moment you can see the defensive player takes a jump forward. He lost his previous guarding position and I don't think he was in his new guarding position long enough before contact. I would have called a block for sure, but I'd have had to be there for a better answer.

slow whistle Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:25am

I got some a really good perspective on the whole block/charge thing from one of my partners last Fri. He is a guy who worked the state finals years ago, D1, and then just recently retired after a long NBA career. His position was that officials at all levels don't call nearly enough PC fouls because 1) there is a distorted consensus about what makes up a pc foul and 2) officials aren't sure what to call a lot of times and the default is to go with a block or no call if you aren't sure . It is sort of along the lines of why there aren't enough T's called, a lot of officials just default to ignoring unsportsmanlike conduct rather than dealing with it - once you accept that PC fouls (like techs) are just another foul and there doesn't need to be a lot of drama, it makes it much easier to call. I couldn't agree with this more and I know I myself am guilty of it at times. I'm trying to really focus on the fact that there doesn't need to be a huge crash with bodies on the floor in order to have a pc foul. If you have a player with LGP and there is contact that displaces that defender you have a pc foul - and leaning back, turning to absorb contact, those are not things that cause it to NOT be a pc foul.


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