You make da call

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah, you might want to read the definition in the post prior to yours, where it says traveling occurs while "holding the ball."

He pins the ball to the floor and runs a little circle around it. Travel or no? "Holding the ball" does not necessarily have to mean that he has it gripped tightly between 2 hands.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Anchor

He pins the ball to the floor and runs a little circle around it. Travel or no? "Holding the ball" does not necessarily have to mean that he has it gripped tightly between 2 hands.

Let me ask you this, would you grant a TO if he was pinning the ball to the floor?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me ask you this, would you grant a TO if he was pinning the ball to the floor?

If you hadn't asked this question, I probably would have, but now I wouldn't.
The player with the ball pinned is neither holding nor dribbling it. There is no player control, so no timeout.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me ask you this, would you grant a TO if he was pinning the ball to the floor?

Actually was going to use that question instead, but the thought of the guy leaning on his arm running around in circles was more amusing.

Answer, if his hand was on top of the ball and he had it forcefully pinned (which is the way I have pretty much pictured this whole scenario) I would most likely grant the TO.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Answer, if his hand was on top of the ball and he had it forcefully pinned (which is the way I have pretty much pictured this whole scenario) I would most likely grant the TO.

Which criterion of 'player control' has this player satisfied?

[FrankHtown]

Ok...player has hands big enought to palm the basketball. Now, is the player holding it, even though it's on the floor?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Ok...player has hands big enought to palm the basketball. Now, is the player holding it, even though it's on the floor?

Are his fingers closed around it? Have to judge whether or not he is controlling it, I am probably saying he is not unless he is obviously palming it and moving it around....a htbt for sure...

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Which criterion of 'player control' has this player satisfied?

If the defender did a belly slide and grabbed the ball on each side while the guy had his hand on top would it be a held ball?

[FrankHtown]

Great point, Anchor.

If the player on the floor could contest the defender taking the ball, then yes...he was "holding " the ball.

[tjones1]

Well, yes, but...

4-25
HELD BALL
A held ball occurs when:

4-25-1
Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

It doesn't say they are "holding"...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Anchor

If the defender did a belly slide and grabbed the ball on each side while the guy had his hand on top would it be a held ball?

I asked about player control. You're talking about a held ball. Different animals.

[FrankHtown]

How can you have your hands firmly on the ball without holding it?

Let's get the NF to define what "holding ....a live ball inbounds" means. Until then my interpretation may be different from others.