Offensive foul - shooting or not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

You're standing next to a player wanting to take a throw-in. You still have the ball. A1 incidentally pushes B1 over to get to the corner, while thinking his teammate has the ball to pass it in. You would ignore that while you're still holding the ball, when this would normally be a personal foul during live ball? Would you call it an intentional foul, when it was legitimately an incidental, personal foul during a dead ball?

Ask yourself this...

What advantage did A1 gain with his contact while you were holding the ball? B1 can still recover from the contact and get back into defensive coverage. If the thrower had the ball though, it would be a different situation. In that case, the throw-in could come in to A1 while B1 was out of position due to the contact.

No advantage---> no intentional foul....in this case. Note that the definition of an intentional foul in rule 4-19-3 says that it neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position. That can't happen when the official is still holding on to the ball.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No advantage---> no intentional foul....in this case. Note that the definition of an intentional foul in rule 4-19-3 says that it neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position. That can't happen when the official is still holding on to the ball.

As you know, an intentional foul can also be called for excessive contact. That's the provision that would be applied to dead ball contact.

And if excessively excessive, it might even be flagrant.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

excessively excessive

Same yourself some typing. Just type, "EE". Better yet, get a thesaurus. Everybody should have a dinosaur for a pet.