Shooting Foul

[averychoi]

Why is it that -
Contact made after a dunk/layup attempt after the ball leaves the hand, no foul is called? But a foul is called when the defender makes contact with a 3-point shooter after the ball leaves the hand?

[Back In The Saddle]

It's not possible to give a definitive answer to such a broad brush question. But there is not a rule that says, "Contact made after a dunk/layup attempt after the ball leaves the hand is not a foul;But a foul shall be called when the defender makes contact with a 3-point shooter after the ball leaves the hand"

All fouls are judgment calls. Some of the judgments involved include whether the contact was illegal or not, did the defender have a legal guarding position, who initiated the contact, whether the contact put the shooter at a disadvantage, whether the contact altered the shot or shooting motion, whether the contact was on an airborne shooter or had the shooter returned to the floor, whether contact on an airborne (and thus vulnerable) shooter was simply unacceptable. Also as players become older, stronger, more skilled, judgments regarding whether a player was put at a disadvantage become more skewed towards expecting the player to "play through" the contact.

To address a specific call or no-call would require seeing the actual play.

[mbyron]

Another possible answer: after a basket (including a dunk), the ball is dead. During a dead ball, contact that is not an intentional or flagrant foul is ignored by rule.

During a 3-point try, the ball is live, and fouls are called as usual.

[icallfouls]

I think this type of play is based more on advantage/disadvantage. Contact on a dunk/layup usually doesn't negate an advantage. As a former player, I am fine with some contact when I am around the basket.

There are instances when there is contact around the head, or other contact where fouls are called on dunk/layup attempts. One general rule of thumb is that if the player cannot land safely. I also try to observe the launch angle of both players. Did the defense jump straight up or into the offense? These are just a couple of factors that I evaluate when observing plays near the basket.

As for 3 pt shots, contact on a shooter has a more significant impact on the result, hence an obvious advantage is gained in most cases.

Remember that the Rules of Basketball allow contact and the intent of the Rules is to penalize contact that negates advantage.

I think that as shots are taken farther away from the basket and there is contact, the more this contact impacts a shooter.

From the sound of your post, I am guessing you are a player. I would encourage you to work harder to finish at the basket, go strong or don't go

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Another possible answer: after a basket (including a dunk), the ball is dead. During a dead ball, contact that is not an intentional or flagrant foul is ignored by rule.

During a 3-point try, the ball is live, and fouls are called as usual.

Only half true...the other half of that paraphrase is pretty important.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Another possible answer: after a basket (including a dunk), the ball is dead. During a dead ball, contact that is not an intentional or flagrant foul is ignored by rule.

During a 3-point try, the ball is live, and fouls are called as usual.

Not necessarily true…

Rule 7
The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:

ART. 7 . . . A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs (see exceptions a, b and c below).

EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Only half true...the other half of that paraphrase is pretty important.

In general, yes. In the context of explaining why no foul was called after a dunk, no.

[Back In The Saddle]

While I generally agree with the notion that "regular" contact after the dunk should be ignored, in reality he is still an airborne shooter until he returns to the floor. So the ball is not dead.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

While I generally agree with the notion that "regular" contact after the dunk should be ignored, in reality he is still an airborne shooter until he returns to the floor. So the ball is not dead.

Really? You might want to look at that again.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? You might want to look at that again.

"An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor."

Are you implying that a dunk is not a try?

[ranjo]

Just as a general statement - Most contact on lay-ups is by a player going in the same direction and speed as the shooter which tends to minimize disadvantage type contact. Contact on a three point shot is normally by a player going in the opposite direction of the shooter, which tends to emphasize the contact.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? You might want to look at that again.

Rule 6 SECTION 7 DEAD BALL
The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 1 A goal, as in 5-1, is made.
ART. 5 An official’s whistle is blown (see exceptions a and b below).
ART. 6 Time expires for a quarter or extra period (see exception a below).
ART. 7 A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs (see exceptions a, b and c below).
ART. 9 A violation, as in 9-2 through 13, occurs (see exception d below).
EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.
b. Article 5 or 7 occurs while a try for a free throw is in flight.
c. Article 7 occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.
d. Article 9 as in 9-3-3 or 9-13-1, occurs by an opponent.

bob jenkins: So what your saying is that because the ball is no longer in flight, it has already been dunked, and has gone through the basket, the ball is dead, even though the shooter may still be airborne?

If that's the case, good point. I could have sworn that Back In The Saddle made a valid point. Now we really know, for sure, why they say, "Always listen to bob".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

"An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor."

Are you implying that a dunk is not a try?

Not at all.

I'm stating that the ball is dead when it passes through the basket, even if the shooter is still airborne.

That's why the "foul on or by an airborne shooter" is needed in the Personal Foul definition.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not at all.

I'm stating that the ball is dead when it passes through the basket, even if the shooter is still airborne.

That's why the "foul on or by an airborne shooter" is needed in the Personal Foul definition.

Huh? What was that? Did anybody else just see a little light turn on? :sheepish grin: