Bulter Game - taking time off the clock

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TonyT

NO NO NO!!!! You can't do that. You are talking about something that happened 15 seconds earlier and had no affect on the game. The players are going by the scoreboard can't you see that. Stick that stop watch where the sun don't shine. Make all the excuses you want but this was mis handled.

I don't know how the NCAA rule reads in this matter, but I think it is undeniable that this is potentially unfair to one team for this reason.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't know how the NCAA rule reads in this matter, but I think it is undeniable that this is potentially unfair to one team for this reason.

While it feels unfair, what would be the proper remedy? In this instance it would seem like the "right" thing to do would be to leave the 1.2 on the clock and play out the game. However, had the stoppage happened with 5 seconds, or 2 seconds left, or 0.2 seconds left, what then? How do we decide when to take the time off and when we shouldn't?

The clock change benefited Butler. But had the last shot come with .8 instead of 1.8 showing, it would have hurt Butler as they'd have cancelled the shot. This is one of those rules that is unfair to one team or the other only based on how the play actually unfolds.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

While it feels unfair, what would be the proper remedy? In this instance it would seem like the "right" thing to do would be to leave the 1.2 on the clock and play out the game. However, had the stoppage happened with 5 seconds, or 2 seconds left, or 0.2 seconds left, what then? How do we decide when to take the time off and when we shouldn't?

The clock change benefited Butler. But had the last shot come with .8 instead of 1.8 showing, it would have hurt Butler as they'd have cancelled the shot. This is one of those rules that is unfair to one team or the other only based on how the play actually unfolds.

If the mistake and the resulting adjustment had canceled the score, I see it as much more fair to replay the final 14.7 than to let this happen.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the mistake and the resulting adjustment had canceled the score, I see it as much more fair to replay the final 14.7 than to let this happen.

But there is no rule for a "do-over"

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

But there is no rule for a "do-over"

Didn't say it was the rule. I said it would be more fair than the rule.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Didn't say it was the rule. I said it would be more fair than the rule.

Gotcha....and I agree. Even though I'm sure there would still be controversy regardless because either the team that scores got to set up a play or the defense got to set up their defensive.....the losing team would still be upset.....but I do agree with you there.

[Spence]

Is there any provision in the NCAA rulebook that would allow the officials to re-start the game back at the 14.7 mark?

[gslefeb]

I think it is wrong to take time off the board. As in OT, can't take time off the clock if it was set to 8mins and there is less then 4 mins remaining in the OT.

Not sure scientifically if one can stop / start a stopwatch and be accurate to 0.1 secs. When would you start the stopwatch - when you see it freeze in the monitor? Then at least 0.1 would have elasped. When would you stop it? when it shows 14.6, obviously 0.1 would have elapsed.

Regarding fairness: What would have happened if 1.9 secs had been deemed the elapsed time? Would the shot not count? How can one determine if Butler would have shot sooner?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

I think it is wrong to take time off the board. As in OT, can't take time off the clock if it was set to 8mins and there is less then 4 mins remaining in the OT.

But you have four minutes to fix that.....you better be able to find some break in play. This sequence didn't have any break in the action. What could they have done differently?

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Not sure scientifically if one can stop / start a stopwatch and be accurate to 0.1 secs. When would you start the stopwatch - when you see it freeze in the monitor? Then at least 0.1 would have elasped. When would you stop it? when it shows 14.6, obviously 0.1 would have elapsed.

I tried it six times....four times I got 1.4 once I got 1.5 and once doing my slowest start and quickest stop I got 1.3......maybe not scientific, but all less than 1.2.

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Regarding fairness: What would have happened if 1.9 secs had been deemed the elapsed time? Would the shot not count? How can one determine if Butler would have shot sooner?

Yep, it wouldn't have counted.