Bulter Game - taking time off the clock

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't know how the NCAA rule reads in this matter, but I think it is undeniable that this is potentially unfair to one team for this reason.

While it feels unfair, what would be the proper remedy? In this instance it would seem like the "right" thing to do would be to leave the 1.2 on the clock and play out the game. However, had the stoppage happened with 5 seconds, or 2 seconds left, or 0.2 seconds left, what then? How do we decide when to take the time off and when we shouldn't?

The clock change benefited Butler. But had the last shot come with .8 instead of 1.8 showing, it would have hurt Butler as they'd have cancelled the shot. This is one of those rules that is unfair to one team or the other only based on how the play actually unfolds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TonyT

NO NO NO!!!! You can't do that. You are talking about something that happened 15 seconds earlier and had no affect on the game. The players are going by the scoreboard can't you see that. Stick that stop watch where the sun don't shine. Make all the excuses you want but this was mis handled.

I guess you do not understand the rule (which is typical of a fan). The clock has to be adjusted if there is a mistake. IT is not about the scoreboard if the clock malfunctions and replay can catch the mistake. You can complain all you want, but the rules are clear. If the officials did not adjust the clock, they would have not been following the rules. BTW, blame the coaches for this rule, they made it. The NCAA rules are completely made by the coaches, so if they do not like the rule, they can and are the only ones that will change it.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

While it feels unfair, what would be the proper remedy? In this instance it would seem like the "right" thing to do would be to leave the 1.2 on the clock and play out the game. However, had the stoppage happened with 5 seconds, or 2 seconds left, or 0.2 seconds left, what then? How do we decide when to take the time off and when we shouldn't?

The clock change benefited Butler. But had the last shot come with .8 instead of 1.8 showing, it would have hurt Butler as they'd have cancelled the shot. This is one of those rules that is unfair to one team or the other only based on how the play actually unfolds.

If the mistake and the resulting adjustment had canceled the score, I see it as much more fair to replay the final 14.7 than to let this happen.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by TonyT

NO NO NO!!!! You can't do that. You are talking about something that happened 15 seconds earlier and had no affect on the game. The players are going by the scoreboard can't you see that. Stick that stop watch where the sun don't shine. Make all the excuses you want but this was mis handled.

Yes yes yes!

and it was 14.7 seconds earlier.

and what would have been the result had the clock not stopped? The Xavier players would have done something different to stop them from scoring?

[gslefeb]

I think it is wrong to take time off the board. As in OT, can't take time off the clock if it was set to 8mins and there is less then 4 mins remaining in the OT.

Not sure scientifically if one can stop / start a stopwatch and be accurate to 0.1 secs. When would you start the stopwatch - when you see it freeze in the monitor? Then at least 0.1 would have elasped. When would you stop it? when it shows 14.6, obviously 0.1 would have elapsed.

Regarding fairness: What would have happened if 1.9 secs had been deemed the elapsed time? Would the shot not count? How can one determine if Butler would have shot sooner?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the mistake and the resulting adjustment had canceled the score, I see it as much more fair to replay the final 14.7 than to let this happen.

But there is no rule for a "do-over"

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

But there is no rule for a "do-over"

Didn't say it was the rule. I said it would be more fair than the rule.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

I think it is wrong to take time off the board. As in OT, can't take time off the clock if it was set to 8mins and there is less then 4 mins remaining in the OT.

But you have four minutes to fix that.....you better be able to find some break in play. This sequence didn't have any break in the action. What could they have done differently?

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Not sure scientifically if one can stop / start a stopwatch and be accurate to 0.1 secs. When would you start the stopwatch - when you see it freeze in the monitor? Then at least 0.1 would have elasped. When would you stop it? when it shows 14.6, obviously 0.1 would have elapsed.

I tried it six times....four times I got 1.4 once I got 1.5 and once doing my slowest start and quickest stop I got 1.3......maybe not scientific, but all less than 1.2.

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Regarding fairness: What would have happened if 1.9 secs had been deemed the elapsed time? Would the shot not count? How can one determine if Butler would have shot sooner?

Yep, it wouldn't have counted.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Didn't say it was the rule. I said it would be more fair than the rule.

Gotcha....and I agree. Even though I'm sure there would still be controversy regardless because either the team that scores got to set up a play or the defense got to set up their defensive.....the losing team would still be upset.....but I do agree with you there.

[Spence]

Is there any provision in the NCAA rulebook that would allow the officials to re-start the game back at the 14.7 mark?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Spence

Is there any provision in the NCAA rulebook that would allow the officials to re-start the game back at the 14.7 mark?

Of course not.

The officials did the right thing by rule. Whenever someone messes up (in this instance the timer) near the end of the game, one team gets "screwed" no matter how the problem is fixed. In this instance the rules committee has decided that the best of the poor choices is to do what they did.

[TonyT]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course not.

The officials did the right thing by rule. Whenever someone messes up (in this instance the timer) near the end of the game, one team gets "screwed" no matter how the problem is fixed. In this instance the rules committee has decided that the best of the poor choices is to do what they did.

Shove the rule book up your a** and use common sense. to play the game properly the players have to know how much time they have to shoot the ball. This is the stupidiest thing I have ever heard.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TonyT

Shove the rule book up your a** and use common sense. to play the game properly the players have to know how much time they have to shoot the ball. This is the stupidiest thing I have ever heard.

Well it does not work that way. I know if the officials did not follow the rule; they would lose their jobs or be suspended. You really think an officials is going to give up their money for you, or a coach that is making 10 times the amount they are on just this game alone? You are dumber than I thought in the first place. Sorry, that is not going to happen because you do not like the rules. So you can shove the so-called common sense up your ***, because it does not apply here.

Peace

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by TonyT

Shove the rule book up your a** and use common sense. to play the game properly the players have to know how much time they have to shoot the ball. This is the stupidiest thing I have ever heard.

Sure you could do this... however, you better pack your bags as you would no longer be working in the conference and probably wouldn't get picked up by any other conference.

It might seem silly, unfair or whatever. But, the set of rules and procedures that make what the officials did were approved by the coaches. As it was already said, if they don't like it, they will change it.

End of story...move on.

[just another ref]

Question about the rule as it appears now. What is the time limit for reviewing and making the clock adjustment? Is it only on that dead ball which immediately follows the error?