Sick head coach

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

This is a bit of a long story but is Germaine to this discussion. My daughter plays varsity basketball. I tend to do mostly JV games so I can hustle over to watch her games when I'm done. Last year I walked into the gym during a time out. The administering official is someone I've worked with quite a few times. He calls me over to ask my opinion. The Hc for the other team is pregnant and not feeling well, so she asked if her AC could be the HC instead. He told her sure as long as he didn't hear from her all night. apparently my daughter's HC is upset. Apparently during the state tourney last year she asked for the same courtesy and the R told her no.

As soon as the game was over, both the AC and HC made a beeline for me to see what I thought. I agreed with how my buddy handled it but told them I would check with authorities. I spoke to 3 different assignors and 1 state rules interpretor and got 2 different answers.
One said there should be no courtesy, and all the others agreed with my buddy.

I would have done as the referee at the State Tournament did. There is more to this than what officials care about. There are contracts and liability concerns. I'm sure that the school signs a contract with the person to be the head coach of the varsity team. I'm sure that the school has the students who make the team sign medical waivers in case a decision needs to be made regarding their health at a game site without their parents or guardians around. Changing who is the head coach and who attends the pregame meeting may have consequences in these areas. I'm not going to be the person who gets in the middle of that situation. Tell the school AD to sort it out. As far as I'm concerned, if the person with the contract is able to be on the bench, then that person is the Head Coach.

Perhaps this is why that official was working the State Tournament.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would have done as the referee at the State Tournament did. There is more to this than what officials care about. There are contracts and liability concerns. I'm sure that the school signs a contract with the person to be the head coach of the varsity team. I'm sure that the school has the students who make the team sign medical waivers in case a decision needs to be made regarding their health at a game site without their parents or guardians around. Changing who is the head coach and who attends the pregame meeting may have consequences in these areas. I'm not going to be the person who gets in the middle of that situation. Tell the school AD to sort it out. As far as I'm concerned, if the person with the contract is able to be on the bench, then that person is the Head Coach.

Perhaps this is why that official was working the State Tournament.

Reviewing contracts isn't in my job description. As long as I have 1 head coach for the game, and the let me know who it is, I'm ok with that.

If somebody else wants to make a stink about a "replacement" head coach, then they can, but there is nothing in the rules requiring a head coach be paid, or that they are the head coach for every game. Therefore, I don't have any business caring why the previous head coach isn't going to be the head coach for this game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Reviewing contracts isn't in my job description. As long as I have 1 head coach for the game, and the let me know who it is, I'm ok with that.

If somebody else wants to make a stink about a "replacement" head coach, then they can, but there is nothing in the rules requiring a head coach be paid, or that they are the head coach for every game. Therefore, I don't have any business caring why the previous head coach isn't going to be the head coach for this game.

What part of "There is more to this than what officials care about," did you not understand?

Obviously, officials don't care who the team puts forward as the head coach, but the state association, the league directorship, the school AD, etc. may all care very much about such a designation.

I would think that the referee for the State Tournament game went and found someone from the state office and asked for a decision. That would be the proper course of action to take.

Again this is why some officials get to work games at those levels and others do not. Quite simply they care and are concerned about more than themselves.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What part of "There is more to this than what officials care about," did you not understand?

Obviously, officials don't care who the team puts for as the head coach, but the state association, the league directorship, the school AD, etc. may all care very much about such a designation.

I would think that the referee for the State Tournament game went and found someone from the state office and asked for a decision. That would be the proper course of action to take.

Again this is why some officials get to work games at those levels and others do not. Quite simply they care and are concerned about more than themselves.

First of all, you deserve a semantic clarification. By state tournament, I didn't mean "State Finals". I was using the generic term which in Ohio means the entire tournment that starts at the sectional level and every school participates in. Second, I know who the official was that disallowed it, and he is universally regarded as an overly officious, arrogant imbecile who thinks his poop doesn't stink but has been around so long and is such a political hack, he scores high in the politics department which nets him assignments in the tournament. The way Ohio picks and assigns officials is a corrupted and idiotic process. SO your assumption on why he did what he did was way off base. He didn't consult anyone. Because, if he did, he would've been told by the state rules interpretor to allow the switch.

Your contract and laiblility issues are red herrings. If HC goes into labor an can't coach the rest of the year, should they cancel the rest of the season because the HC can't be there? Ridiculous.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

First of all, you deserve a semantic clarification. By state tournament, I didn't mean "State Finals". I was using the generic term which in Ohio means the entire tournment that starts at the sectional level and every school participates in. Second, I know who the official was that disallowed it, and he is universally regarded as an overly officious, arrogant imbecile who thinks his poop doesn't stink but has been around so long and is such a political hack, he scores high in the politics department which nets him assignments in the tournament. The way Ohio picks and assigns officials is a corrupted and idiotic process. SO your assumption on why he did what he did was way off base. He didn't consult anyone. Because, if he did, he would've been told by the state rules interpretor to allow the switch.

Sorry that the process for selecting postseason officials in your area is so corrupt and unfair. Obviously, that is your opinion. Since I have no such information about how Ohio does this, other than what MTD posts, I have to assume that the people who get those games deserve them and handle the situations aptly.
Why would your state rule interpreter say to allow the switch? How can you be so sure that he would say to do that? Upon what basis would he make that ruling?

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Your contract and laiblility issues are red herrings.

A red herring is an item which diverts attention from actual significance. Contracts and liability are not items without significance.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

If HC goes into labor an can't coach the rest of the year, should they cancel the rest of the season because the HC can't be there? Ridiculous.

No one has said that would be the case. One would have to believe that the school would replace her as the head coach.

BTW say hello to Germaine for the rest of us when you see him.

[sseltser]

I would think that the referee for the State Tournament game went and found someone from the state office and asked for a decision. That would be the proper course of action to take.

I'll agree, this is probably a wise decision to make and you couldn't go wrong by making it.

I would have done as the referee at the State Tournament did.
...
Tell the school AD to sort it out.

I'm just wondering what your ruling would be if the AD isn't there (it's an away game) and you can't get a hold of your assignor or the state.


Also, suppose this is your first time working for this school. There is a pregnant woman on the bench who seems to be taking charge of pregame discussions, but doesn't ever leave her seat or talk to you. Another person come to the coaches/captains conference. I would just assume she's an AC with a lot of basketball knowledge, wouldn't you?
What are you going to do if you find out at halftime that she is the real head coach?

In my opinion, and this is backed by the rules (not contracts, which we aren't privy to or able to enforce), the team can appoint one person as a head coach. By forcing them to name a person as head coach who isn't able to fulfill all the duties of head coach, you are putting that team at a disadvantage.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sorry that the process for selecting postseason officials in your area is so corrupt and unfair. Obviously, that is your opinion. Since I have no such information about how Ohio does this, other than what MTD posts, I have to assume that the people who get those games deserve them and handle the situations aptly.

I haven't been around long enough to even qualify for the tourney, so your assumption there was just as wrong. Your implication that my opinion is sour grapes because I suck at this is a mighty big assumption since you have no clue about who I am. I don't know MTD either, but while he may not use the same extreme words I did to make a point, he probably doesn't like it either. For the record, assignments are based primarily on votes from our associations (political); Athletic directors (since I friends with a couple, I know how uninformed they are about the officials and their performance)(also political) and the coaches who see us work. (very political). I know quite a few officials who let coaches get away with murder because they don't want it to affect their assignments. That wouldn't make you uncomfortable? In my mind, the only people who should be involved are assignors. But I've only been around for 6 years and don't do enough Varsity games yet to qualify.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why would your state rule interpreter say to allow the switch? How can you be so sure that he would say to do that? Upon what basis would he make that ruling?

BECAUSE I CALLED HIM WHEN THE SECOND SITUATION OCCURRED AND ASKED HIM ABOUT IT SPECIFICALLY.(He was, at the time, also one of my assignors) (Thanks for playing)

The funny part was when he said that any official that would do that was being "overly officious".

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A red herring is an item which diverts attention from actual significance. Contracts and liability are not items without significance.

Exactly. There is no signifigance to my liability based on who is coaching. If I am liable for something that happens, its more likely I will win the multi state lottery than who the HC is affecting the situation.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No one has said that would be the case. One would have to believe that the school would replace her as the head coach.

BTW say hello to Germaine for the rest of us when you see him.

That was your implication. When it happened later that year with the coach in question, there was no new contract. They just said to the Assisstant Coach, you finish the season as HC. He didn't sign a new contract. He didn't get a raise. So therefore, by YOUR logic, if something happened (for the life of me, I could'nt even begin to imagine what it would be---hence the red fish) by your reasoning, I would be liable. Your logic is flawed. OR as seems to be the case, based on many of your posts, you're one of those overly officious referees who can't react to anything that isn't literally in the book. You probably yell at cheerleaders when they come on the floor during 30 second timeouts.

Your arrogant put down of a spelling error I made in a previous thread says a lot more about what an *** you are than how stupid I am.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

You probably yell at cheerleaders when they come on the floor during 30 second timeouts.

I don't yell at them, but I do ask who the captain is, and then ask the captain not to come out on the floor for thirty second timeouts for the remainder of the game. I will also show her the signals for thirty, and sixty, second timeouts so that she will know when to come out onto the floor, and when not to. Why would I handle this any other way?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I haven't been around long enough to even qualify for the tourney, so your assumption there was just as wrong. Your implication that my opinion is sour grapes because I suck at this is a mighty big assumption since you have no clue about who I am.

My goodness. Where did I write anything of the sort? I merely commented on what you expressed as an opinion. I wrote nothing at all about your assignments, your potential selection for post-season, or your officiating ability. YOU inferred all of those sentiments. News flash: it's not all about you.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I don't know MTD either, but while he may not use the same extreme words I did to make a point, he probably doesn't like it either. For the record, assignments are based primarily on votes from our associations (political); Athletic directors (since I friends with a couple, I know how uninformed they are about the officials and their performance)(also political) and the coaches who see us work. (very political). I know quite a few officials who let coaches get away with murder because they don't want it to affect their assignments. That wouldn't make you uncomfortable? In my mind, the only people who should be involved are assignors. But I've only been around for 6 years and don't do enough Varsity games yet to qualify.

I have posted on this very forum several times that having the ADs and coaches involved in the post-season selection process compromises the integrity of the game. I still stand by that position. So if the system is the way that you describe it in your state, then it likely is problematic. Still I believe that the officials who are deserving will find their way there. Afterall, the coaches have great interest in making sure that they get a fair shake at that time of the season and Homer Joe isn't going to be their #1 choice when they know that they must travel.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

BECAUSE I CALLED HIM WHEN THE SECOND SITUATION OCCURRED AND ASKED HIM ABOUT IT SPECIFICALLY.(He was, at the time, also one of my assignors) (Thanks for playing)

The funny part was when he said that any official that would do that was being "overly officious".

So you do have a friend in the system. Good for you. Glad that he agrees with your opinion. I do not. I will note that you didn't bother to respond to the part where I inquired upon what rule basis he would make such a decision. Probably because you are well aware that he doesn't have any.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Exactly. There is no signifigance to my liability based on who is coaching. If I am liable for something that happens, its more likely I will win the multi state lottery than who the HC is affecting the situation.

Again, it is NOT all about you. Why do you assume that I was talking about YOUR liability? Do you ever consider the school district's point of view, or the AD's? How about the actual Head Coach him/herself?

I was thinking about a polite question to coach/AD along the lines of "Do you know how that would impact your school's insurance policy?" or "Have you okay'd that with the (insert name of state association)?"

Originally Posted by Ignats75

That was your implication.

Nope, you are mistaken about the thought which I was expressing. In the future, please don't try to tell me what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

When it happened later that year with the coach in question, there was no new contract. They just said to the Assisstant Coach, you finish the season as HC. He didn't sign a new contract. He didn't get a raise. So therefore, by YOUR logic, if something happened (for the life of me, I could'nt even begin to imagine what it would be---hence the red fish) by your reasoning, I would be liable.

No, but he might find himself in a difficult situation or the school might. Yet, again, this is not all about you. I know that in my area all Head Coaches are required to obtain certification from the state office, and that entails taking a course in which they must learn and demonstrate proficiency in CPR and response to basic emergency medical situations. The state office and the school wants a person with such skills accompanying the team on the bus or at an away site just in case there is a problem. If the person who takes over doesn't have that certification, then the whole purpose of this program has been ruined.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Your logic is flawed.

I would contend that your reading comprehension is the area of difficulty.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

OR as seems to be the case, based on many of your posts, you're one of those overly officious referees who can't react to anything that isn't literally in the book. You probably yell at cheerleaders when they come on the floor during 30 second timeouts.

Yep, I know and enforce the rules as written. I guess that you don't care for that. For the record, I do not allow the cheerleaders on the floor during 30-second time-outs. Nice to see that you elect to set that rule aside--makes me wonder what else you don't bother to enforce.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Your arrogant put down of a spelling error I made in a previous thread says a lot more about what an *** you are than how stupid I am.

To set the facts straight your error was made in an earlier post in this thread, not previous one, and mbyron was actually the first to poke fun at you about it. I guess that makes him an *** as well.
Perhaps you should lighten up and learn to take a joke. If you can't even stand our making fun of a spelling mistake of yours, then one would have to wonder how you handle grief from the spectators. Perhaps you put your fingers in your ears as you run up and down the court.