Case Book bailed you out

[Anchor]

As an aside on a different thread, the matter of the case book was brought up, particularly that the situations in there seem to rarely happen.

It might be good for all of us, just as a reminder to keep studying, to relate some instances where knowledge of the rules and case book has absolutely saved your butt in various situations.

One that comes to my mind was in a quarter-final of a rather prestigious varsity boys tournament several years ago. The game was close throughout with team B making an 8 or so point run at the very end to tie and send to overtime. I was the R, and had verified the score, fouls, etc., at the end of each quarter, half, and during the late time-outs of the 4th quarter. However, the team B scorer was (evidently) not their regular one and lacked confidence, as compared to the relatively "bossy" A scorer. At the end of intermission before the extra period (we were already in place for the jump) I heard some excited banter from the team A scorer to the coach, gathering that there was some sort of bookkeeping error.

Before they could get my attention I tossed the ball for the jump, then blew it dead before it was tapped.

To this day I don't know if there was actually a mistake or that the team A scorer harangued the B scorer into agreeing to a point that had not been credited from the first half, but it was there on paper and had to be counted (bookkeeping mistakes may be corrected at any time). Of course team A was sure of the win, but because the ball had become live for the extra period "it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made (5-7-4)" which, in my judgment, was the only way to properly conclude this match.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Anchor

At the end of intermission before the extra period (we were already in place for the jump) I heard some excited banter from the team A scorer to the coach, gathering that there was some sort of bookkeeping error.

Should have stopped right there to resolve the issue.

Given that you didn't stop until after the ball was tossed, I agree with completing the game.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Before they could get my attention I tossed the ball for the jump, then blew it dead before it was tapped.

I was taught NEVER to have your whistle in your mouth during a jump ball at the risk of breaking your teeth or having your whistle rammed down your throat.

If you didn't have it in your mouth, I can't see how you accomplished this....

[j51969]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Should have stopped right there to resolve the issue.

Given that you didn't stop until after the ball was tossed, I agree with
completing the game.

Agreed, fix the score and move on with the extention to the 4th Q.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by j51969

Agreed, fix the score and move on with the extention to the 4th Q.

I wish this was the ruling if the score is fixed after time expired in the 4th quarter but before the ball is tossed for the OT jump. Allowing the score to change after time expired, without any remedy for the "losing" team, seems like an opportunity ripe for abuse; especially when the V scorer is young and inexperienced.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I was taught NEVER to have your whistle in your mouth during a jump ball at the risk of breaking your teeth or having your whistle rammed down your throat.

If you didn't have it in your mouth, I can't see how you accomplished this....

I didn't take the time to give all the details in the OP. Actually had U2 blow it dead. Told him "as soon as it leaves my hand, blow your whistle." I did not know what was going on at the table, but I knew that the right thing to do was to play the extra period, and the only way to guarantee that was to make the ball alive. There had been enough fuzzy things happening at the table between scorer A and B during the course of the game that I wasn't excited about having to declare a winner in a daggone good ballgame due to a table "error" when the score had been verified 6 or so times throughout the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I didn't take the time to give all the details in the OP. Actually had U2 blow it dead. Told him "as soon as it leaves my hand, blow your whistle." I did not know what was going on at the table, but I knew that the right thing to do was to play the extra period, and the only way to guarantee that was to make the ball alive. There had been enough fuzzy things happening at the table between scorer A and B during the course of the game that I wasn't excited about having to declare a winner in a daggone good ballgame due to a table "error" when the score had been verified 6 or so times throughout the game.

So you knew that there was a problem, but then conspired with one of your fellow officials to play an extra period anyway?

That may be the most unethical action that I've ever heard of an official taking. I'm totally ashamed that you are an officiating colleague. You flat out cheated and screwed whichever team should have won following the end of the 4th quarter.

What is the proper thing to do "in your judgment" is not what is the correct thing to do for a real official who actually has the courage to enforce the rules as written.

[bigdogrunnin]

I haven't posted in some time, but still come around to read posts, but this one grabbed my attention . . .

If you KNEW something was amiss, you had a responsibility to investigate first, not arbitrarily make a decision to send the game to overtime because YOU thought it best. BAD decision making.

I won't go as far as NR in chastising you, but I will say that I hope you don't make this choice again in the future, as you set a poor standard for others when taking such inappropriate and insupportable actions . . .

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That may be the most unethical action that I've ever heard of an official taking.

I doubt it, since I know that you've heard of Tim Donaghy.

[Anchor]

Let me think here: score, fouls, and time-outs have been verified with both books and the clock operator at the end of the 1st quarter, end of half, prior to beginning of 2nd half, end of 3rd quarter, at least once (likely more) towards end of 4th quarter, immediately following end of regulation, a full minute has elapsed since regulation and both teams are aligned for the jump, and I am doing something unethical when, just as the Team A scorer lady jumps in on the Team B girl and starts getting very animated, I toss the ball so that we can't back away from the extra period?

You have a relatively short amount of time upon recognizing there is something amiss at the table to run it through your mind as to what it could involve: a clash between a competent, rather bossy scorer who has become exasperated with a borderline incompetent one?; roster issues?; time-outs wrong? fouls wrong? score wrong? (since those have been verified 6 or more times the likelihood of that is slim); someone thinks we're heading the wrong way?; questions about the arrow? or any of a host of other issues. When they've had 45 min of designated time plus time-outs and other opportunities to get it right I'm the one being unethical when I assure that the next 3 minutes (it was some time ago) will be played?

I'll be glad to think it through some more because the last thing in the world I want to do is be unethical in any way, but I'm failing to see it right now. Always willing to learn, though.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Let me think here: score, fouls, and time-outs have been verified with both books and the clock operator at the end of the 1st quarter, end of half, prior to beginning of 2nd half, end of 3rd quarter, at least once (likely more) towards end of 4th quarter, immediately following end of regulation, a full minute has elapsed since regulation and both teams are aligned for the jump, and I am doing something unethical when, just as the Team A scorer lady jumps in on the Team B girl and starts getting very animated, I toss the ball so that we can't back away from the extra period?

You have a relatively short amount of time upon recognizing there is something amiss at the table to run it through your mind as to what it could involve: a clash between a competent, rather bossy scorer who has become exasperated with a borderline incompetent one?; roster issues?; time-outs wrong? fouls wrong? score wrong? (since those have been verified 6 or more times the likelihood of that is slim); someone thinks we're heading the wrong way?; questions about the arrow? or any of a host of other issues. When they've had 45 min of designated time plus time-outs and other opportunities to get it right I'm the one being unethical when I assure that the next 3 minutes (it was some time ago) will be played?

I'll be glad to think it through some more because the last thing in the world I want to do is be unethical in any way, but I'm failing to see it right now. Always willing to learn, though.

If any of those other things (besides score) were a problem, then taking care of them before the tap wouldn't have changed a thing, and wouldn't have required you to blow the tap dead.

You obviously assumed that it was possibly a score issue, since you told your U to blow it dead once you tossed it.

I happen to agree with the others that purposefully starting the period was the wrong move. I don't think your motivation was necessarily wrong, but I don't believe it was the right thing to do.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I'll be glad to think it through some more because the last thing in the world I want to do is be unethical in any way, but I'm failing to see it right now. Always willing to learn, though.

It's always better to fix a problem earlier rather than later. Since you didn't, you were wrong. Is that unethical? It depends on your motivation, and only you can answer that.

What if it was some sort of correctable error, and the period for fixing it ended when the ball became live on the jump?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I'll be glad to think it through some more because the last thing in the world I want to do is be unethical in any way, but I'm failing to see it right now. Always willing to learn, though.

And through all of that you had enough time and wherewithal to plot with your partner to toss the ball and have him blow it dead prior to either player even touching it.

Yeah, you knew exactly what you were doing. You weren't strong enough to deal with to the scorer, so you contrived a way to get the outcome which you desired and that's unethical.