Interesting Technical Situation

[rgncjn]

Watched this situation unfold the other evening at a local high school varsity boys game.

Team A turns the ball over in their front court. Substitute B6 has reported to the scorer and is waiting to enter the game. The center official (opposite table) sounds his whistle, sticks his hand to up signal to the other official to hold play. Substitute B6 is beckoned on to the playing court by the center official.

B6 enters the court and reports to B1 that he is being replaced. During this, the new trail official has administered the ball for the throw-in that Team B recieved as a result of Team A's turnover. Play is stopped instantly when the trail official realizes that Team B has 6 players on the court.

A technical foul is assessed to Team B for having more than five players on the court.

Is this an administrative technical for having more than five players on the court? Is this a technical foul in B6 for entering the court (even though he was beckoned)? Is this a technical foul on B1 for not leaving the court?

The official who beckoned B6 on to the floor did not come in and tell the calling official that he beckoned him on, and instead went ahead and agreed with assessing the technical foul.

When I spoke to one of the officials after the game (a good friend), I asked how they assessed the technical foul. He said that they charged the technical to B1 for not promptly leaving the court. Rules citation?

[Chess Ref]

The old dogs will be here soon enough for the dotting the "i"s and crossing the T's part of discussion. But that just sounds like an official rushing to get the ball in play. I know I've rushed also but player did have permission to come on the court.

Unless the player leaving is slow as molasses AND being a butthead ,giving a T for this is not good. IMHO...

[Ignats75]

If I'm trail, it doesn't happen. If I'm R, there is no effin way I'm going to allow a T to be assessed in this situation and the T and I are going to have a little "chat" when we get to the locker room. If I'm not the R, I'm still having that chat. No way I would penalize a team because one of my partners was an idiot.

The FIRST thing and I truly mean FIRST thing I say in a pregame is "DON'T EFFIN INBOUND THE BALL UNTIL YOUR PARTNERS ARE READY." What, did I stutter?

[Nevadaref]

Once the officials screw up and put the ball in play while one team has six people on the court, there is nothing that can be done to avoid assessing a technical foul whether we like it or not. The rules simply require it.

True, that this was the mistake of the officiating crew for not communicating better, but the ball became live and that's the end of it.

The technical foul is not charged to any specific individual. It is a TEAM technical foul per 10-1-6.

[Adam]

I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm charging the T on this one. It's the equivalent of a cop getting in your car and asking how fast your car can go before giving you a speeding ticket.
This isn't even like the officials forgetting to count. The kid was beckoned onto the court.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm charging the T on this one. [snip]
This isn't even like the officials forgetting to count. The kid was beckoned onto the court.

So are you going to erase the game action which took place?
Are you resetting the game clock to what it was prior to the throw-in and re-doing the throw-in as if the play never happened?
What rules support do you have for that?

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So are you going to erase the game action which took place?
Are you resetting the game clock to what it was prior to the throw-in and re-doing the throw-in as if the play never happened?
What rules support do you have for that?

2-3 supports anything I want it to support. Since one of my partners being an idiot isn't covered expressly in the rules, I am using that clause to fix the situation without a T.

If we have definite knowledge of time, we'll reset the clock. If not, we're moving on. We are after all only talking about a couple of seconds here.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

2-3 supports anything I want it to support. Since one of my partners being an idiot isn't covered expressly in the rules, I am using that clause to fix the situation without a T.

If we have definite knowledge of time, we'll reset the clock. If not, we're moving on. We are after all only talking about a couple of seconds here.

I believe that is a very poor attitude to take.

This is a game played by humans and officiated by humans. Mistakes are certain to occur. I believe that one should deal with them according to the prescribed methods, not as one simply feels like doing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So are you going to erase the game action which took place?
Are you resetting the game clock to what it was prior to the throw-in and re-doing the throw-in as if the play never happened?
What rules support do you have for that?

I'm going to assume this is caught almost immediately, otherwise the OP doesn't make any sense. There shouldn't be any action to erase; simply pick up at POI. Now, if the team actually has 6 playing ball, that's a different story.

Look, if the officials forget to count and 6 play, call the T. That's the coach's fault pure and simple. If, however, an official beckons a player onto the court and his teammate promptly leaves, there's no way I'm calling that T. The spirit and intent of this rule is to prevent a team from actually having 6 players play, not to penalize a coach for an official actually calling him onto the court.

Rule support? The applicable Ts here are:

1. A sub coming in without being beckoned. This isn't applicable.
2. Having more than 5 players "participating simultaneously." Define "participating" for me here, because the play I'm envisioning does not have them all actively participating.

[just another ref]

There are times when you simply gotta do what you gotta do. No T here.


If you feel that you must quote a rule to justify, this play is a poster child for 2-3.

[amusedofficial]

2-3 states that "The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

It is a slippery slope to use this rule to make the situation conform to one's sense of fairness when one perceives fairness to be at odds with a procedure specifically covered in the rules.

2-3 is not a royal charter, nor a grant of omnipotence to the R, nor are the rules writers authorizing a do-over.

Oh, and if someone starts lecturing me to "don't effin" this that or the other thing as the first words out of his/her mouth in pregame, I'm going to have questions about his/her professionalism.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rgncjn

Team A turns the ball over in their front court. Substitute B6 has reported to the scorer and is waiting to enter the game. The center official (opposite table) sounds his whistle, sticks his hand to up signal to the other official to hold play. Substitute B6 is beckoned on to the playing court by the center official.

By this, I'm hoping you meant that they threw the ball out of bounds or violated, and so the ball was dead when the C whistled. First time I read it I was imagining C interrupting the game to bring in the sub!

As for the substantive question: I think it depends. If the trail has administered the throw-in too quickly as the substituted player is still leaving the court, I think it would be a misapplication of the rules to call a T on B for trail's poor mechanics.

However, I can also envision a situation where the substituted player is meandering off the court, the ball is put in play, and he turns around as if to participate. Especially if B has already been warned about this kind of delay, I could see calling a T here.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So are you going to erase the game action which took place?
Are you resetting the game clock to what it was prior to the throw-in and re-doing the throw-in as if the play never happened?
What rules support do you have for that?

I would think that this would fall under the "intent" of the rule. No T from me on this one.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm going to assume this is caught almost immediately, otherwise the OP doesn't make any sense. There shouldn't be any action to erase; simply pick up at POI.

I have stood there with my hand up only to have my partner not verify my count and inbound the ball early.

TWEEEEEEEET! Hold on sparky (Glare at partner).

No T from me either.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is a game played by humans and officiated by humans. Mistakes are certain to occur. I believe that one should deal with them according to the prescribed methods, not as one simply feels like doing.

Are you kidding me? You have said some silly things, but this is one of the sillier ones in relation to the situation described. If the C blows his whistle and the sub is beckoned and the ding-dong T brings the ball in anyway, you're going to call a T for 6 players on the court? You're going to penalize the kids for an official's mistake. Brilliant.