aggressive block out

[rsl]

Just finished my first boys JV game of the year. All went well, but I have a question.

On most of the three point shots put up by one team, the defending team would turn around, reach back with one hand to find the shooter, and then aggressively block out the shooter. Sometimes it was so quick that they would step under the airborne shooter, but most of the time they would catch the shooter just after landing.

It was generally too mild for a whistle, and it had clearly been coached. It made me wonder if it is an intimidation technique- make the shooter think about the landing instead of the shot.

Anybody else seen this?

[Freddy]

. . . displacement? Sounds like it

[Adam]

If they're undercutting the shooter, it sure sounds like a foul. They're likely coached to do it until they get called. "Agressive box-out" is generally a euphamism for pushing.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by Freddy

. . . displacement? Sounds like it

Not really- more like a sudden stop as soon as the shooter hits the floor. More disconcerting than displacement.

This might just be good basketball, unless they are a tad fast and they get under the shooter. Either way it is tough to call.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by rsl

Just finished my first boys JV game of the year. All went well, but I have a question.

On most of the three point shots put up by one team, the defending team would turn around, reach back with one hand to find the shooter, and then aggressively block out the shooter. Sometimes it was so quick that they would step under the airborne shooter, but most of the time they would catch the shooter just after landing.

It was generally too mild for a whistle, and it had clearly been coached. It made me wonder if it is an intimidation technique- make the shooter think about the landing instead of the shot.

Anybody else seen this?

Anytime you have players regularly undercutting an opposing player -- even if "mild" -- you regularly have a foul, in my opinion. Did the shooters regularly end up back further from the basket than when they landed? If so, this could likely be a displacement foul by the defense.

As a coach, we worked extremely hard on boxing out -- not, boxing out hard, but rather working hard to box out on every shot. In all my years of coaching (well over 25), I rarely ever had a player penalized for "boxing out." However, opposing players (and our players) could regularly get away with contact from the back on rebounds (frequently called "over the back" by parents and coaches). Therefore, a good solid box out was critical to our success.

Based on your description, you seem to have noticed behavior that, while taught, quite possibly was not within the spirit of the rules. While there may be a fine line in this case. My guess is that a team was permitted to get away with getting very physical on rebounds without penalty. But, in fairness, I was not there.

[Back In The Saddle]

The defense does not get to "box out" an airborne shooter. That's a foul. Every time.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The defense does not get to "box out" an airborne shooter. That's a foul. Every time.

As BITS notes, don't let opponents make contact with that airborne shooter. That player is in a vulnerable position until returning to the floor and needs to have his/her safety looked out for by the officials. There can be some contact after the player ceases to be airborne without it being a foul, but there has been an emphasis on protecting airborne players from unnecessary contact over the past few years at all levels of basketball.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by rsl

Sometimes it was so quick that they would step under the airborne shooter, but most of the time they would catch the shooter just after landing.

As has been drilled into my head many times, and you are hearing here - ALWAYS protect/stay with your airborne shooter! Don't let them be undercut - they are at great risk.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rsl

Anybody else seen this?

Yes and I have called fouls on this many times. I have even called fouls after the airborne shooter comes back to the floor.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes and I have called fouls on this many times. I have even called fouls after the airborne shooter comes back to the floor.

Peace

We (as a crew) had three of them on Monday night.

[rsl]

Thanks guys- I think I needed some positive reinforcement to make this call.

I called only one last night. I probably should have had two or three. My partner didn't call any and he was the R, so I followed his lead a little. I'll be a little stronger next time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The defense does not get to "box out" an airborne shooter. That's a foul. Every time.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As BITS notes, don't let opponents make contact with that airborne shooter. That player is in a vulnerable position until returning to the floor and needs to have his/her safety looked out for by the officials. There can be some contact after the player ceases to be airborne without it being a foul, but there has been an emphasis on protecting airborne players from unnecessary contact over the past few years at all levels of basketball.

I'll echo. Protect airborne shooters. If you call it early they'll learn. Or as Hank Nichols used to say, "call the foul, the players will adjust."

[Scratch85]

Now that it looks like everyone agrees, this foul needs to be called let me tell you this story.

A regular partner of mine was doing a BV scrimmage last week and had this very call. He watched the shooter down, the block-out displaced and he called the foul. The 3-pointer was good and the team got the ball back for a throw-in.

After reporting the foul, the offended coach and host of the scrimmage said, "you better not call that in a varsity game."

Apparently all coaches don't agree with us. Wait, I already knew that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Now that it looks like everyone agrees, this foul needs to be called let me tell you this story.

A regular partner of mine was doing a BV scrimmage last week and had this very call. He watched the shooter down, the block-out displaced and he called the foul. The 3-pointer was good and the team got the ball back for a throw-in.

After reporting the foul, the offended coach and host of the scrimmage said, "you better not call that in a varsity game."

Apparently all coaches don't agree with us. Wait, I already knew that.

Nope, not everyone agrees with what you just wrote as that is not at all the sentiment that BITS and I expressed in are posts. We specifically talked about the contact occurring while the player was still an airborne shooter. I even wrote that some contact can be acceptable AFTER the player has returned to the floor without being a foul.
The play that you described in your story does not involve an airborne shooter being fouled. It is completely different. The players and coaches accept protecting the AIRBORNE shooter from him being undercut and awarding one FT on made goals, they generally don't accept fouls being called against players who have already returned to the floor for minor contact resulting in the goal counting and the team getting the ball back for a throw-in, unless the contact is egregious and knocks the player into the third row.
The coach was absolutely right in his comment about how the varsity game is generally called, and your partner needs to learn the distinction.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by rsl

My partner didn't call any and he was the R, so I followed his lead a little. I'll be a little stronger next time.

Once the jump ball is over, it doesn't matter who is R and U (except for certain circumstances). Make the correct call even if your P is not. Maybe you making the call with give him the "testicular fortitude" (insert picture of a certain squirrel here) to make the right call.

Not only do they undercut the shooter, but sometimes they will extend their arms around each side of the shooter basically boxing them in. If the shooter even attempts to move around them, I got a hold.

You make the calls and 1 of 2 things will happen. Either they will stop or they will foul out. Choice is theirs.

Mregor