Cut block

[hawkishowl20]

I watched a high school team last night. One team ran a play several times in which a back (lined up over the guard) went to kick out the defensive tackle (who typically was lined up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle) he would cut him rather aggressively. This is on the edge of the tackle box but the ball carrier is running close to the block. I was curious because this seemed to be a base play of theirs if they were (borderline on) running an illegal play. What if the defensive player widened away from the tackle? Ball carrier nearby?Rulings?

[BktBallRef]

Makes no difference where the defender is lined up. A back cannot legally block below the waist.

[RochesterRef]

Agreed. No back can EVER block below the waist without a flag

[trocared]

Originally Posted by RochesterRef

Agreed. No back can EVER block below the waist without a flag

This would depend on where the high school game was played....if in Texas, or a couple of other states that use NCAA rules, it would be perfectly legal.
If it was under NFHS rules however, the previous statements are true.
cheers,
tro

[Robert Goodman]

Usually on a kick-out block by a blocking back you don't want to cut block anyway, because you're trying to open a hole, and the player being cut can easily fall forward & clog the hole. So usually the BB starts out in a low stance and is moving his shoulders upward as he approaches his target.

More often you see the cut block on a trap where the player being trapped has already penetrated and just has to be kept from reacting.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

I watched a high school team last night. One team ran a play several times in which a back (lined up over the guard) went to kick out the defensive tackle (who typically was lined up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle) he would cut him rather aggressively. This is on the edge of the tackle box but the ball carrier is running close to the block. I was curious because this seemed to be a base play of theirs if they were (borderline on) running an illegal play. What if the defensive player widened away from the tackle? Ball carrier nearby?Rulings?

CANADIAN RULING:

Blocking below the waist is legal if all 3 conditions are true:

• the block occured in the Close Line Play Area*
• the blocker was set in the CLPA at the time of the snap
• the blocker at no time prior to the snap was outside the CLPA

*CLPA = tackle to tackle, ± 2 yards from LS (ie. 2 yards behind or beyond the LS)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by trocared

This would depend on where the high school game was played....if in Texas, or a couple of other states that use NCAA rules, it would be perfectly legal.
If it was under NFHS rules however, the previous statements are true.
cheers,
tro

People are fully aware of Texas and those other states. No one is talking about states that do not use NF rules. And based on previous posts from the person posting, he is not from Texas (Massachusetts, which my understanding are the only two states the NCAA Rules apply).

Peace

[jimy2shooz]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

I watched a high school team last night. One team ran a play several times in which a back (lined up over the guard) went to kick out the defensive tackle (who typically was lined up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle) he would cut him rather aggressively. This is on the edge of the tackle box but the ball carrier is running close to the block. I was curious because this seemed to be a base play of theirs if they were (borderline on) running an illegal play. What if the defensive player widened away from the tackle? Ball carrier nearby?Rulings?

If he is lined up over the guard then he's not a back. If he is lined up behind the guard then you have a foul if he blocks below the waist on his initial move.

[jimy2shooz]

Originally Posted by RochesterRef

Agreed. No back can EVER block below the waist without a flag

Wrong! Ever is a not always true. The initial contact can begin above the waist and while still in contact with the defender can slide down and and can eventually block below the waist.

[trocared]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People are fully aware of Texas and those other states. No one is talking about states that do not use NF rules. And based on previous posts from the person posting, he is not from Texas (Massachusetts, which my understanding are the only two states the NCAA Rules apply).

Peace

Thanks Rut.
I was not attempting to undercut the previous posters to show how much more I know than they. I live 900 miles from Texas (and twice that far from Mass.), and through the miracle of cable tv, was able to watch my first 5A Texas High School game a few years ago. Sometime in the first quarter (after a wing official signaled "uncatchable") I realized they were using NCAA rules. The original poster, like myself, has a short history in this forum, and I was attempting to address this issue (watching a texas hs game on cable).
If I choose to assume that everyone is fully aware that tx uses ncaa, i could also assume that everyone should be fully aware that under fed, a back can never cut block anyone, anywhere.
cheers,
tro

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by jimy2shooz

Wrong! Ever is a not always true. The initial contact can begin above the waist and while still in contact with the defender can slide down and and can eventually block below the waist.

Rule 2 Definitions of Playing Terms
SECTION 3 BLOCKING
ART. 7 Blocking below the waist is making initial contact below the waist from the front or side against an opponent other than a runner. Blocking below the waist applies only when the opponent has one or both feet on the ground. (emphasis added)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jimy2shooz

Wrong! Ever is a not always true. The initial contact can begin above the waist and while still in contact with the defender can slide down and and can eventually block below the waist.

Wrong! What you describe is not a block below the waist. That's why it's legal.

A block below the waist occurs when initial contact occurs below the waist. It's always illegal when done by a back.

Let's not complicate things, whatcha say?

[jimy2shooz]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Wrong! What you describe is not a block below the waist. That's why it's legal.

A block below the waist occurs when initial contact occurs below the waist. It's always illegal when done by a back.

Let's not complicate things, whatcha say?

Have to respectfully disagree with you sir. If action described above is not considered blocking what do you have?? If the initial block begins above the waist and the blocking continues below the waist..I have to call that blocking in book. And legal of course. Whatcha say?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jimy2shooz

Have to respectfully disagree with you sir. If action described above is not considered blocking what do you have?? If the initial block begins above the waist and the blocking continues below the waist..I have to call that blocking in book. And legal of course. Whatcha say?

BBR is right. Re-read the entire thread if you need to.

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by jimy2shooz

Have to respectfully disagree with you sir. If action described above is not considered blocking what do you have?? If the initial block begins above the waist and the blocking continues below the waist..I have to call that blocking in book. And legal of course. Whatcha say?

What was descibed by BBR is a block (bascially all contact between 2 players is a block...some just happen to qualify and illegal--block below the waist, from behing, etc), and he was pointing out that the block that starts high and then continues low is not blocking below the waist (and, thus, not a foul).