Breaking the plane by defense during throw in

[Coach Bill]

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

You ARE joking right?

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

You ARE joking right?

Yes, I am. But, theoretically, if it was a real slow reach in and a real fast whistle, you could catch it before it happens.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Yes, I am. But, theoretically, if it was a real slow reach in and a real fast whistle, you could catch it before it happens.

You could, but you'd be wrong to do so. There's a specific case play or interp that covers this -- get the "end action" not the "earlier violation."

[BillyMac]

Let's say we have a "run the endline" throwin. Team A has the ball.

1) Throwin player A1 attempts a throwin pass across the lane, not quite parallel to the endline, to teammate A2, who in just barely inbounds. After A1 releases the ball on the throwin, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the throwin pass. What do you have?

2) During a "trick" play, throwin player A1 attempts a pass across the lane, to teammate A2, who is also out of bounds. After A1 releases the ball on the "trick" play pass, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the "trick" play pass. What do you have?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's say we have a "run the endline" throwin. Team A has the ball.

1) Throwin player A1 attempts a throwin pass across the lane, not quite parallel to the endline, to teammate A2, who in just barely inbounds. After A1 releases the ball on the throwin, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the throwin pass. What do you have?

2) During a "trick" play, throwin player A1 attempts a pass across the lane, to teammate A2, who is also out of bounds. After A1 releases the ball on the "trick" play pass, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the "trick" play pass. What do you have?

This is where the NFHS rules break down. We have to determine if A1 intended to make a throwin or to make a pass to a teammate who was OOB or was expected to be OOB, perhaps by the time the ball got there. In one case, this would be a T on B3 and legal in the other case.

In the NCAA, it is still not perfect, but it is closer...it would be a T or a violation depending on the official's judgment but it would never be a legal play until the ball crosses the line.

In the NCAA rules, there is no dilemma for the defender...whether it is legal to go for the ball or not...whether the official's judgment will agree with theirs or not...they simply can't touch the ball until it crosses the line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This is where the NFHS rules break down. We have to determine if A1 intended to make a throwin or to make a pass to a teammate who was OOB or was expected to be OOB, perhaps by the time the ball got there. In one case, this would be a T on B3 and legal in the other case.

Camron Rust: It appears that you, like me, agree that situation 1 (above) is legal, but that situation 2 can be confusing according to the NFHS definition of when the throwin pass ends. I was really hoping that a Forum member could come up with a casebook play, annual interpretation, or rules exam question that would clear up the ruling on Situation 2.

NFHS 4-42-5: The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is legally touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out of bounds, except as in 7-5-7 (Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate(s) outside the boundary).

NFHS 9-2-10: The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. NOTE: The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds area before the ball is released on the throw-in pass. The opponent in this situation may legally touch or grasp the ball.

By definition, we know when the throwin ends. When does the throwin pass end? In Situation 2, does the throwin pass end after the first pass by A1, or after the second pass, by A2? In my opinion, I believe that the throwin doesn't end until after the second pass by A2, thus making the across the endline steal by B3 illegal, and a technical foul, but I would like to have further rulebook, or casebook, backing to defend my opinion.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

This has been discussed extensively on the board. This is not how the rule is written, and not how it's enforced. If you reach over and contact the ball, it's a technical.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

Only for 8U.