Tough situation my partner put us in

[just another ref]

Accidental whistle: whistle blown/call made mistakenly which produces an undesirable result

Not the case here.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Accidental whistle: whistle blown/call made mistakenly which produces an undesirable result

Not the case here.

Why not?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Why not?

The team wound up with the ball which would have wound up with the ball anyway had the call not been made.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The team wound up with the ball which would have wound up with the ball anyway had the call not been made.

Do you have a rule or case to back that up?

That's a rhetorical question, because obviously there isn't one. You've been shown the specific rules and case plays backing up giving back to the team last in control, not the team that "should've gotten it".

You want to make a call directly contradicting the rules because you think it's "more fair", and people may not complain as much. I get that, and I used to think that way a long time ago. Most of the time you might get away with it. But if you work this game long enough, there will be that one time that someone will discover you are making calls not based on a lack of rules knowledge, but rather by making up rules, and that will hurt your advancement possibilities.

I've learned it is always better to stick with the rules, no matter how much complaining happens as a result.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Do you have a rule or case to back that up?

That's a rhetorical question, because obviously there isn't one. You've been shown the specific rules and case plays backing up giving back to the team last in control, not the team that "should've gotten it".

You want to make a call directly contradicting the rules because you think it's "more fair", and people may not complain as much. I get that, and I used to think that way a long time ago. Most of the time you might get away with it. But if you work this game long enough, there will be that one time that someone will discover you are making calls not based on a lack of rules knowledge, but rather by making up rules, and that will hurt your advancement possibilities.

I've learned it is always better to stick with the rules, no matter how much complaining happens as a result.

First of all, potential complaints are not a factor in my ruling in this case. Secondly, I think potential for a complaint is not that great in the first place because I am skeptical about how many hs coaches can quote a rule about what to do in the event of an accidental whistle.

The key here, in my estimation, is whether it is absolutely necessary to declare that an accidental whistle has occurred. You guys apparently have issues about what I think an accidental whistle is, but the fact is that there is no specific definition for an accidental whistle.

Originally Posted by the OP

.....my partner blows his whistle and calls an over and back violation on White.....

Your partner made a call. Had he simply blown the whistle, then made no signal but merely stood there with "the deer in the headlights look," it would be difficult to justify giving the ball to blue.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Your partner made a call. Had he simply blown the whistle, then made no signal but merely stood there with "the deer in the headlights look," it would be difficult to justify giving the ball to blue.

Then explain the ruling in case play 5.8.3 Sit. E. The official didn't blow the whistle and not make a call, but actually made the call, granting the TO. Why is that considered an accidental whistle, by rule?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Then explain the ruling in case play 5.8.3 Sit. E. The official didn't blow the whistle and not make a call, but actually made the call, granting the TO. Why is that considered an accidental whistle, by rule?

In this case, if the official is later convinced that there was no timeout request, granting a timeout is not in the best interest of the game. IOW, the accidental whistle produces an unfavorable result, and should be dealt with accordingly.

What about 5.8.3 Situation E a. ? The whistle was blown improperly. The timeout was granted, when it should not have been. Why is this not an accidental whistle? Is this not evidence that every whistle blown improperly is not an "accidental whistle."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Accidental whistle: whistle blown/call made mistakenly which produces an undesirable result

So if the result is "desirable", then the whistle isn't accidental?

Who decides whether the result is "desirable?"

[gslefeb]

If an official blows the whistle to call backcourt; Then realizes it was the incorrect call, don't you get an inadvertant whistles ... ooops my bad - do over... using POI ?

In the case mentioned... If the score was not mentioned - would it have change the responses? Or if White was losing by a bunch?

If the official above - did not "reverse" the call; then we have a backcourt violation and Blue Basketball.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

If an official blows the whistle to call backcourt; Then realizes it was the incorrect call, don't you get an inadvertant whistles ... ooops my bad - do over... using POI ?

Yep, that's the gist of the entire thread.

Originally Posted by gslefeb

In the case mentioned... If the score was not mentioned - would it have change the responses? Or if White was losing by a bunch?

Would you change how you call the game in other areas based on the score? Would you make or not make certain travel calls based on the score? Would you start calling fouls on one end and stop calling fouls on the other end, based on the score?

The answer to these questions should be the same as the answer to your question.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So if the result is "desirable", then the whistle isn't accidental?

In a nutshell, correct.

Who decides whether the result is "desirable?"

The official who made the call, with the assistance of his partner, if necessary.