Tough situation my partner put us in

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Why do we automatically assume that by rule we have an accidental or inadvertant whistle? Sounds like we just have a really, really bad call. The partner, who BTW was trail and thus it was his call to make (or in this case, blow) called a violation...he got it wrong, but he called a violation nonetheless.

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air....then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air....then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

Or, how about this: A1 has the ball in the front court, A1's pass bounces off A2 and starts rolling towards the backcourt. A1 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court, the other foot in the air. A1 looks down, sees the line, and can't help but put the second foot on the line. The official sees that, blows the whistle and signals the backcourt violation. Except then the official notices the line A1 stepped on was a volleyball line in the front court, not the division line.

Bad call, or accidental whistle?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Or, how about this: A1 has the ball in the front court, A1's pass bounces off A2 and starts rolling towards the backcourt. A1 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court, the other foot in the air. A1 looks down, sees the line, and can't help but put the second foot on the line. The official sees that, blows the whistle and signals the backcourt violation. Except then the official notices the line A1 stepped on was a volleyball line in the front court, not the division line.

Bad call, or accidental whistle?

I vote for accidental whistle.

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Or, how about this: A1 has the ball in the front court, A1's pass bounces off A2 and starts rolling towards the backcourt. A1 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court, the other foot in the air. A1 looks down, sees the line, and can't help but put the second foot on the line. The official sees that, blows the whistle and signals the backcourt violation. Except then the official notices the line A1 stepped on was a volleyball line in the front court, not the division line.

Bad call, or accidental whistle?

I'm okay with this being an accidental whistle.

[just another ref]

One more: A1 secures a rebound and heaves a length of the court pass to A2, who has released on a break. No other player from either team is in that end of the court. The pass is too long, and bounces just inside the end line. Official anticipates the inevitable and blows the whistle while the ball is in the air. A2, however, has exceptional speed. As the whistle sounds, he leaps. He manages to get a hand on the ball and tap it back.............into the back of the backboard. How many here would call this an accidental whistle and give the ball back to A?

[CoachP]

105 posts on an accidental/inadvertant whistle. It's a rule. Good coaches know that. Don't worry 'bout us. (The smart ones ). The terrible coaches will either learn the game or be in the stands in 2 years.

I've seen 1 in 14 years of JV and 8 years of varsity. It's just one play. We know after that you will be even a better official the rest of the game.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How many here would call this an accidental whistle and give the ball back to A?

Only those of us that know the rule.

So, let me get this straight - in your play, after the whistle, if A2 hits it off the back of the backboard, you would give it to B? But if A2 missed the backboard and it went right to A3, you would give it to A? And if the ball is caught by A3 and B3 simultaneously, you would go AP? What if A2 throws it back on the court, but it rolls a while before players go to pick it up - how long do you wait before determining who gets it? Just curious as to what rule or case you use to justify who gets the ball based on what happens after the IW?

What if the reason the player threw it off the back of the backboard was because they were affected by the sound of the whistle? Are you 100% sure A2 didn't turn their head slightly at the sound of the whistle, and that's what caused then to throw it against the back of the backboard? Players react to the whistle, and play is either affected or stopped after the whistle is blown. So what happens after an IW is not the same as if play had continued without the whistle. That's why the rules include the provision for POI - give it back to the team last in control at the time of the whistle. Period.

Want to avoid being "unfair"? Don't blow an inadvertant whistle. Otherwise, just follow the rules.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Only those of us that know the rule.

So, let me get this straight - in your play, after the whistle, if A2 hits it off the back of the backboard, you would give it to B? But if A2 missed the backboard and it went right to A3, you would give it to A? And if the ball is caught by A3 and B3 simultaneously, you would go AP? What if A2 throws it back on the court, but it rolls a while before players go to pick it up - how long do you wait before determining who gets it? Just curious as to what rule or case you use to justify who gets the ball based on what happens after the IW?

What if the reason the player threw it off the back of the backboard was because they were affected by the sound of the whistle? Are you 100% sure A2 didn't turn their head slightly at the sound of the whistle, and that's what caused then to throw it against the back of the backboard? Players react to the whistle, and play is either affected or stopped after the whistle is blown. So what happens after an IW is not the same as if play had continued without the whistle. That's why the rules include the provision for POI - give it back to the team last in control at the time of the whistle. Period.

Want to avoid being "unfair"? Don't blow an inadvertant whistle. Otherwise, just follow the rules.

Okay, point taken. My point was what would the call be if the above happened and I was positive that the split second early whistle did not affect the actions. Your point was that there is no way to be positive of this.

Remove the player from the equation. The pass sails high over everybody's head. You have a brain fart and sound the whistle a half second before
the ball smacks ten feet high on the wall. Is this also an accidental whistle, and the ball goes back to A? Or am I the only one who has ever imposed the little known inevitability clause written somewhere in small print?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Remove the player from the equation. The pass sails high over everybody's head. You have a brain fart and sound the whistle a half second before
the ball smacks ten feet high on the wall. Is this also an accidental whistle, and the ball goes back to A? Or am I the only one who has ever imposed the little known inevitability clause written somewhere in small print?

That's not an accidental whistle, it's a premature whistle.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Remove the player from the equation. The pass sails high over everybody's head. You have a brain fart and sound the whistle a half second before the ball smacks ten feet high on the wall. Is this also an accidental whistle, and the ball goes back to A? Or am I the only one who has ever imposed the little known inevitability clause written somewhere in small print?

You're probably not the only one. You're just the only one to admit seeing small print in the NFHS rule book.

Like Bob said, it's a premature whistle, not inadvertant. There was a call to make (OOB); it was simply called early. Going back to the OP (remember that play?...), it was an inadvertant whistle because there was no call to make (no backcourt violation). If it was A3 about to receive the ball in the backcourt, then you could argue the same premature whistle, instead of an IW, because the violation was going to occur once A3 touched it.

As long as we're doing "what if's", what if, in your case, the air from the A/C vent pushes the ball downward after the whistle, and it ends up staying inbounds. If it hits the wall, it's a premature whistle, because there was a call to make. If it stays inbounds, it's an IW, because there was no call to make.

Yea, I know there's no definition of premature whistle. But I hope you follow the logic.

Hey, wait a minute...didn't I say I was done with this?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air....then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Or, how about this: A1 has the ball in the front court, A1's pass bounces off A2 and starts rolling towards the backcourt. A1 grabs the ball with one foot in the front court, the other foot in the air. A1 looks down, sees the line, and can't help but put the second foot on the line. The official sees that, blows the whistle and signals the backcourt violation. Except then the official notices the line A1 stepped on was a volleyball line in the front court, not the division line.

Bad call, or accidental whistle?

How about both, a bad call & IW... but seriously I'm following the procedure for an IW in both instances. Just hope I'm not the calling official

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air....then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

Change this one slightly. A1 secures the rebound. A2 crashes into him. Official sees the crash, whistles for a foul. A split second later, official realizes his mistake. A split second after that, A1 falls to the floor. What do you call here?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Change this one slightly. A1 secures the rebound. A2 crashes into him. Official sees the crash, whistles for a foul. A split second later, official realizes his mistake. A split second after that, A1 falls to the floor. What do you call here?

This one seems more closely related to my original situation. You have a fubar. By rule, you have to give it back to A as they had possession when the whistle stopped play. Who are you going to call the foul on? What can it be other than an accidental whistle?

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air....then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

I could live with this as an inadvertant/accidental whistle. There was no foul since teammates were involved, so there was no actual rule to apply, unless one of the teammates traveled or otherwise violated because of the contact. Assuming there was no violation, this is one of those quirky situations where you fix the non-rule applied screw-up with an inadvertant/accidental whistle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If your partner sees a crash during rebounding action, the ball is rolling loose, he blows his whistle, puts his fist in the air, then realizes 2 teammates slammed into each other, is this a bad call or an accidental whistle?

I've actualy had this happen to me, except in my case the fouled player kept possession of the ball. I immediately realized my mistake, and gave the ball to the team that had possession when I sounded my whistle.