admitting to a coach you made a mistake

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't see that the case play is binding at all. I see it as one possible outcome on a double whistle.

You said it:



Signaling a foul, in and of itself means nothing. The important part is what gets reported. In the case play, like any double whistle, this would involve some communication between the two officials. Often this is nothing more than one official walking away from the call, yielding it to the other for whatever reason.

I don't agree with that at all. Ignoring the case I previously presented where one official signaled differently than verbalized, it is a blarge as soon as the two opposing signals are given...not when it is reported. There is no discussion that can change the outcome from a double foul. If they realize they're not calling the same contact, then they can discuss it and determine which came first.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

........ it is a blarge as soon as the two opposing signals are given...not when it is reported.

From another thread:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

there was a double whistle. I couldn't hear it but the lead's arm went up at the same time as the center...hard to see, but take a close look. The lack of an immediate preliminary signal was because they were ensuring they didn't have a blarge.

Found this quote by you on the subject. I'm sure others have said more or less the same thing. This indicates that you think the preliminary (block/charge) signal is the key to the whole blarge mess. So if you go up with a fist and no prelim, but your partner immediately signals pc, does this mean you have the option of blarge or pc? If both of you go up with just a fist, with no prelim, but had intentions of making opposite calls, are you obligated to go with a double foul? If not, then why not?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This indicates that you think the preliminary (block/charge) signal is the key to the whole blarge mess. So if you go up with a fist and no prelim, but your partner immediately signals pc, does this mean you have the option of blarge or pc. If both of you go up with just a fist, with no prelim, but had intentions of making opposite calls, are you obligated to go with a double foul? If not, then why not?

No, you're not obligated to go with a double foul, because until you signal the requirements of the case play don't kick in.

At my clinic in June, the clinician gave this advice for blarges. Some crews hold their prelim on a double whistle and then let the official whose primary it is make the call. This guy suggested that it's often better to sell a call on a blarge, and if you're waiting you're not selling.

So his recommended mechanic was: let L sell the call. As T or C, get in the habit of doing 2 things: (1) hold your signal on a double whistle, and (2) when your partner sells his call, nod vigorously, as if that's what you had too.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by mbyron

So his recommended mechanic was: let L sell the call. As T or C, get in the habit of doing 2 things: (1) hold your signal on a double whistle, and (2) when your partner sells his call, nod vigorously, as if that's what you had too.

We were thinking alike on this one except for the nodding part. Are you serious about nodding vigorously? I'm simply not going to do this; it seems silly to me and could come off planned/fake.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by tomegun

We were thinking alike on this one except for the nodding part. Are you serious about nodding vigorously? I'm simply not going to do this; it seems silly to me and could come off planned/fake.

Doesn't have to be vigorous. The clinician was making a point: T or C needs to go along with whatever L is selling. I'm sure the nodding is optional.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The clinician was making a point: T or C needs to go along with whatever L is selling.

T or C should go along with whatever the lead is selling, even if they strenuously disagree, just because the lead made the preliminary signal. Unless T or C had made a preliminary signal of their own, in which case they now can't go along with the lead, even if after reviewing it quickly, they were so inclined. I got one word for this.

Ridiculous

[walter]

Originally Posted by just another ref

T or C should go along with whatever the lead is selling, even if they strenuously disagree, just because the lead made the preliminary signal. Unless T or C had made a preliminary signal of their own, in which case they now can't go along with the lead, even if after reviewing it quickly, they were so inclined. I got one word for this.

Ridiculous

At the four camps I attended this play was discussed quite a bit. All the clinicians, however, agreed on one common principal, if two different preliminaries are given on a block/charge situation, it is a double foul and both players are penalized. They all stressed that is why the T and C should do everything they can to refrain from giving a preliminary signal when there is a double whistle on these situations. They all agreed the prelim, if given, should come from the lead.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Doesn't have to be vigorous. The clinician was making a point: T or C needs to go along with whatever L is selling. I'm sure the nodding is optional.

OK, so now that you've said (typed) what someone told you, do you agree with the nodding part? Do you do it or plan on doing it?

I still think it is corny.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

OK, so now that you've said (typed) what someone told you, do you agree with the nodding part? Do you do it or plan on doing it?

I still think it is corny.

I can only speak for myself on what works for me. I will not nod just for the purpose to make everyone know I agree with the call of my partner, but I will nod when talking to a coach to get them to understand what I am saying to them. But that is a little different than doing so after a call you are not participating in. I do nod if my partner and I have a double whistle and I only do it to acknowledge that we have the same thing or that someone has the call. Usually this is followed by some verbal exchange or comment about who is going to the table.

Peace