Stay out of my pond!

[Nevadaref]

NCAA rule:
Rule 10
Section 1. Personal Fouls
Art. 1. A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress
of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s) or by
bending his or her own body into other than a normal position; nor use any
unreasonably rough tactics.


Curiously the rule doesn't state leg or foot, but if I were the Lead this is what I would point to for justification of the call.

The leg was clearly extended, that is not debatable, and it ended up being in the path of the moving opponent. I also understand the point of those who are saying that he did not deliberately or knowingly step in front of the opponent as he likely didn't even see him.

In the end, I would rather see a foul call made here than a non-call.

[Old_School]

Whether it was a foul or not is argumentive.

Having the lead make that decision, as refguy advocates, is completely ridiculous.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Old_School

Whether it was a foul or not is argumentive.

Having the lead make that decision, as refguy advocates, is completely ridiculous.

Seen this type of "out of the primary" call by a Lead at a camp a year ago. The supervisor of the conference brought the crew together after the game.

Supervisor speaking to the Lead after the game: Why did you make that call out of your primary?

Official: Because it was a foul.

Supervisor: Do you trust your partners?

Official: Yes, but I thought they didn't have the best look at the play.

Supervisor: If you're looking out there, then who is officiating your primary area?

Official: (Silence)

Supervisor: If you're gonna make a call out there, you're telling me that you don't trust your partners. They should take their paychecks and go home because you're officiating their areas. That call you make out there better be a non-basketball play or a 1000% correct call. Let your partners live or die with that call or non-call; I'll deal with them if it needs to be addressed.

[JRutledge]

I looked at the play again (not the YouTube version).

I am still trying to figure out who stuck out their leg. MSU #1 stepped to the ball but his back was to the Kansas player. The MSU player trailing the Kansas player did not touch the Kansas player at all.

Either people did not see the video in higher definition or they are making up the facts as time gets further away from the game. The Kansas player clearly hit his own leg and fell down as a result. The player fell several steps away from MSU #1 and the Kansas player was more than a step away from where he fell and where any contact would have taken place. They showed the moment about 3 or 4 times.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I looked at the play again (not the YouTube version).

I am still trying to figure out who stuck out their leg. MSU #1 stepped to the ball but his back was to the Kansas player. The MSU player trailing the Kansas player did not touch the Kansas player at all.

Either people did not see the video in higher definition or they are making up the facts as time gets further away from the game. The Kansas player clearly hit his own leg and fell down as a result. The player fell several steps away from MSU #1 and the Kansas player was more than a step away from where he fell and where any contact would have taken place. They showed the moment about 3 or 4 times.

Still in your own little world.

You continue talk about MSU #1. That's the wrong guy.

Look at MSU #2. He's the player with the black knee brace on his left leg.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Still in your own little world.

You continue talk about MSU #1. That's the wrong guy.

Look at MSU #2. He's the player with the black knee brace on his left leg.

Yep.

Done that.

Still nothin'.

[JRutledge]

You are right about the wrong number, but he did not touch him. No one touched the Kansas player at all. Not when he jumped not when he got by the MSU player that was from behind. NO CONTACT AT ALL!!! Who in the heck could have stuck their leg out?

The Kansas player hit his right foot into his left leg and fell. And the fact that people are even trying to justify such a call is hilarious. That was the same thing I saw on my HD 1080i TV last night. And that was the case on the HD player the NCAA and CBS provides. No contact what so ever.

Peace

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are right about the wrong number, but he did not touch him. No one touched the Kansas player at all. Not when he jumped not when he got by the MSU player that was from behind. NO CONTACT AT ALL!!! Who in the heck could have stuck their leg out?

The Kansas player hit his right foot into his left leg and fell. And the fact that people are even trying to justify such a call is hilarious. That was the same thing I saw on my HD 1080i TV last night. And that was the case on the HD player the NCAA and CBS provides. No contact what so ever.

Peace

As I said, it may be argumentive if a foul actually occurred on this play. Fwiw though, I agree completely with your analysis above. I have watched the play numerous times, slo-mo and otherwise, and I still haven't see any contact by an opponent that would cause the player to trip.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are right about the wrong number, but he did not touch him. No one touched the Kansas player at all. Not when he jumped not when he got by the MSU player that was from behind. NO CONTACT AT ALL!!! Who in the heck could have stuck their leg out?

The Kansas player hit his right foot into his left leg and fell. And the fact that people are even trying to justify such a call is hilarious. That was the same thing I saw on my HD 1080i TV last night. And that was the case on the HD player the NCAA and CBS provides. No contact what so ever.

Peace

Jeff,

Look at the replay from floor level and tell there was no contact.

YouTube - Sweet 16: Kansas vs. Michigan State

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Seen this type of "out of the primary" call by a Lead at a camp a year ago. The supervisor of the conference brought the crew together after the game.

Supervisor speaking to the Lead after the game: Why did you make that call out of your primary?

Official: Because it was a foul.

Supervisor: Do you trust your partners?

Official: Yes, but I thought they didn't have the best look at the play.

Supervisor: If you're looking out there, then who is officiating your primary area?

Official: (Silence)

Supervisor: If you're gonna make a call out there, you're telling me that you don't trust your partners. They should take their paychecks and go home because you're officiating their areas. That call you make out there better be a non-basketball play or a 1000% correct call. Let your partners live or die with that call or non-call; I'll deal with them if it needs to be addressed.

IMO, this whole attitude is taken just a bit too far. I prefer the saying "don't allow an elephant on the court just cause it's not in your primary."

Not saying this particular situation qualifies, but it is possible to work your primary and see something happening elsewhere that needs to be called.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

IMO, this whole attitude is taken just a bit too far. I prefer the saying "don't allow an elephant on the court just cause it's not in your primary."

Not saying this particular situation qualifies, but it is possible to work your primary and see something happening elsewhere that needs to be called.

Agree, Rich....but this wasn't an elephant. Not even close.

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not saying this particular situation qualifies, but it is possible to work your primary and see something happening elsewhere that needs to be called.

Agree, but....

Do you think that the lead should have made the call on the play that's being discussed?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

IMO, this whole attitude is taken just a bit too far. I prefer the saying "don't allow an elephant on the court just cause it's not in your primary."

Not saying this particular situation qualifies, but it is possible to work your primary and see something happening elsewhere that needs to be called.

That was an awful long ways away for something people cannot even agree on. Now the conversation might not have been that confrontational, but I bet something was mentioned about the Lead and where his partners were looking.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That was an awful long ways away for something people cannot even agree on. Now the conversation might not have been that confrontational, but I bet something was mentioned about the Lead and where his partners were looking.

Peace

Three people in a row comment on my post...notice I did say "not that this play in particular qualifies..."

I just hate hearing this as an absolute, like we should have blinders on everywhere except our primaries.

I think it was a stretch and, worse, a guess. I wouldn't have reached on this one, no way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just hate hearing this as an absolute, like we should have blinders on everywhere except our primaries.

I think it was a stretch and, worse, a guess. I wouldn't have reached on this one, no way.

I do not think anyone has used this as an absolute (at least in this discussion). My point is if you are going to get something that far out of your area, you have got to be right. You cannot have a call that people are going to debate the validity of the call and your partners completely pass when they would be the usual calling officials. In my experience when an official comes that far, they are usually wrong. Or at least they have their partners wondering what the hell they just called.

Peace