Duke vs. Villanova

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Back to the topic: Duke got killed.

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

Is coach K not getting the job done anymore? Is Duke overrated? When Duke gets McDonalds All-Americans, are they All-Americans because they are that good or are they All-Americans because they go to Duke?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

They must be over-seeded and over-rated.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

Is coach K not getting the job done anymore? Is Duke overrated? When Duke gets McDonalds All-Americans, are they All-Americans because they are that good or are they All-Americans because they go to Duke?

Don't know but I hope they keep it up!

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Don't know but I hope they keep it up!

To the haters: enjoy it while it lasts.

As to whys and wherefores, a lot of it's just random variation. If Laettner misses the buzzer-beaters in '90 and '92, the expectations over the last fifteen years are completely different, and this five-year stretch is much less of a story. Note that if those things had happened, K would not be a lesser coach. On the flip-side, Roy Williams said for many years before '05 that winning a title wouldn't make him a better coach, and I respect him for reiterating the point after he did win one.

More randomness: highly touted Josh McRoberts turned out to be a bust, while the much less hyped Tyler Hansbrough turned into a college superstar. No one was faulting K for recruiting McRoberts, nor did anyone foresee his lack of a substantial contribution to the program.

Going further back, Luol Deng leaves one year sooner than expected, and Sean Livingston never shows up on campus after signing a letter-of-intent. Think about this line-up: Livingston, Deng, Redick, Shelden Williams, and Daniel Ewing. That's who Duke would have rolled out in 2005 had things gone as planned. Think that team wouldn't have at least made the Final Four?

In the last few years, Duke has missed out on two bigs who had Duke as one of two finalists: Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe. What do you think the last two Duke teams would have done with PP? How about this year's team with Monroe in the mix?

The other big issue in the last four years has been the lack of an elite point guard. No one thought this would be an issue when K signed NPOTY Greg Paulus in 2005, but things didn't work out as planned for Paulus, whose major weakness was largely covered up his freshman year when the dribble penetration he allowed was cleaned up by Shelden Williams. By the time the picture had clarified itself at the end of 2007, the USA Basketball commitment for K had ramped up, and that didn't make it any easier to get a true point guard to come in and back up or start over Paulus.

Certainly Duke's recruiting has suffered in the last two years with K putting country above program. Not a complaint, just an observation. With that commitment now over, expect Duke's recruiting to rise to a level at or near where it was in the early nineties when Duke was hot and the team eight miles south had a pretty fair coach itself.

If Henderson comes back next year, Duke will be a favorite to go to Indianapolis. If he doesn't, the team will likely be about where it was this year, with a second-weekend exit, but should be on a strong upward trajectory for what will likely be K's last four or five years.

It's great to still see the hate, as it means Duke is still the gold standard. When it stops being news that they don't make it past the Sweet 16, it's time to worry.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by jbduke

To the haters: enjoy it while it lasts.

As to whys and wherefores, a lot of it's just random variation. If Laettner misses the buzzer-beaters in '90 and '92, the expectations over the last fifteen years are completely different, and this five-year stretch is much less of a story. Note that if those things had happened, K would not be a lesser coach. On the flip-side, Roy Williams said for many years before '05 that winning a title wouldn't make him a better coach, and I respect him for reiterating the point after he did win one.

More randomness: highly touted Josh McRoberts turned out to be a bust, while the much less hyped Tyler Hansbrough turned into a college superstar. No one was faulting K for recruiting McRoberts, nor did anyone foresee his lack of a substantial contribution to the program.

Going further back, Luol Deng leaves one year sooner than expected, and Sean Livingston never shows up on campus after signing a letter-of-intent. Think about this line-up: Livingston, Deng, Redick, Shelden Williams, and Daniel Ewing. That's who Duke would have rolled out in 2005 had things gone as planned. Think that team wouldn't have at least made the Final Four?

In the last few years, Duke has missed out on two bigs who had Duke as one of two finalists: Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe. What do you think the last two Duke teams would have done with PP? How about this year's team with Monroe in the mix?

The other big issue in the last four years has been the lack of an elite point guard. No one thought this would be an issue when K signed NPOTY Greg Paulus in 2005, but things didn't work out as planned for Paulus, whose major weakness was largely covered up his freshman year when the dribble penetration he allowed was cleaned up by Shelden Williams. By the time the picture had clarified itself at the end of 2007, the USA Basketball commitment for K had ramped up, and that didn't make it any easier to get a true point guard to come in and back up or start over Paulus.

Certainly Duke's recruiting has suffered in the last two years with K putting country above program. Not a complaint, just an observation. With that commitment now over, expect Duke's recruiting to rise to a level at or near where it was in the early nineties when Duke was hot and the team eight miles south had a pretty fair coach itself.

If Henderson comes back next year, Duke will be a favorite to go to Indianapolis. If he doesn't, the team will likely be about where it was this year, with a second-weekend exit, but should be on a strong upward trajectory for what will likely be K's last four or five years.

It's great to still see the hate, as it means Duke is still the gold standard. When it stops being news that they don't make it past the Sweet 16, it's time to worry.

Want some cheese with that?

[Nevadaref]

Actually I don't like Duke because I think that the media gives them too much coverage and over-hypes them. If they were good enough to deserve the press, then I wouldn't mind, but there are so many other programs who are deserving of that attention, and many of them out-perform Duke.

They aren't the gold-standard of anything. They are just a media darling.

That's why I root against them.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually I don't like Duke because I think that the media gives them too much coverage and over-hypes them. If they were good enough to deserve the press, then I wouldn't mind, but there are so many other programs who are deserving of that attention, and many of them out-perform Duke.

They aren't the gold-standard of anything. They are just a media darling.

That's why I root against them.

I don't like Dook cause I find K to be a vulgar, whiny douchebag and because of what Nevada says in the post I quoted. No place was that more evident than him commenting on Obama's picks.

Personally, I am beside myself with glee when the ACC loses, but never more so than when it's Dook.

[Forksref]

"K putting country above program."

I'VE HEARD IT ALL NOW!! I can hear the music in the background..."Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord..." Everyone grab a tissue.

Thanks for sacrificing your team for America! LOL

I've never seen a bigger collection of 'what ifs' and excuses!

And the 'haters' label. If you don't love us, you must hate us. What a simplistic paranoid concept.

What will Duke do without Hansborough to cheap shot??

Will coach K ever drop the profanity-laced tirades against officials? He's the biggest hypocrite in basketball. At least we aren't seeing those morality-based commercials this year with the great moral leader.

[JRutledge]

Entertainment!!!

Peace

[jbduke]

Love it. A page of reasonable explanations for the "decline of Duke," something a couple of people actually asked about, and you guys come back with nothing but ad hominem crap.

Whatever.

If anyone wants to actually engage in something substantive, let's rock.

As for the "over-hype," what are you talking about? Name me one national writer/talking-head who has picked Duke to go to the Final Four, pre-season or post-Selection-Sunday, more than one year out of the last five. If your point is that they get too much exposure, well, that's a purely market-based phenomenon. Duke is televised more than anybody else because more people tune in to watch Duke than they do anyone else. And people watch Duke more than any other team because they care more about Duke than any other team. For most of the audience, they care about the opportunity to see Duke lose.

Those of the 'overhype school' usually argue that their dislike is born of over-exposure, but if Duke is over-exposed, it's because they're so hated.

NOBODY hates the Pittsburgh Pirates. And nobody would hate them even if ESPN and Fox both made the dubious decision to include the Pirates in every single one of their regular-season telecasts this season. The overexposure argument is a figleaf.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jbduke

If Laettner misses the buzzer-beaters in '90 and '92 AND RICHARD "THE FIXER" PERRY DOESN'T CONVINCE LARRY JOHNSON AND SOME OF THE GUYS FROM UNLV TO THROW THAT SEMI-FINAL GAME IN 1991, the expectations over the last fifteen years are completely different, and this five-year stretch is much less of a story.

Fixed it for ya.

[26 Year Gap]

Fanboy.com

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Fanboy.com

FYI, I'm a referee. And a good one.

www.provincialrubes.com

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by jbduke

FYI, I'm a referee. And a good one.

www.provincialrubes.com

Every year at this time we can count on you to be here extolling the virtues of Duke. Rarely see you otherwise.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jbduke

It's great to still see the hate, as it means Duke is still the gold standard.

Actually it means no such thing.

To prove it, may I submit exhibits A, B, and C.

A. Notre Dame football.
B. Dallas Cowboys.
C. Nebraska football