UNC/Villanova; missed travel call?

[Tar Heel]

I was watching this game while on the phone with my life-long buddy who lives in Chapel Hill, (I live in Fresno, CA) and we BOTH saw this; we both screamed "TRAVEL!" (So I know I'm not losing my mind) And so far, no one else on planet Earth has mentioned it:

Very late in the game (sorry, didn't record it) with maybe 1 minute left, and Villanova gets a rebound about 5 feet from the basket on the near side to the TV camera. Villanova player is looking for an outlet pass, and doesn't get one for about 4 seconds. He's beginning to lose his balance, and DRAGGED his pivot foot! the PbP guys didn't see it, no ref called it, but Greg and I saw it!! Very soon afterward, the travel call that wasn't a travel was called (that we are all discussing here); we both said "Make-up call" which we all know wasn't true, but we were still incredulous that they missed the dragged pivot foot.

Plus, I haven't seen anyone ask about it on this board. Were we dreaming?

BTW, I am an 8-year BB official. And, as you can see, a Tar Heel fan.

Phil



[Edited by Tar Heel on Mar 26th, 2005 at 12:33 PM]

[rainmaker]

If you're talking about the travel-that-wasn't-a-travel that has a four page thread called, "Ummm", that was at about 11 seconds. Is that the one?

[Tar Heel]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If you're talking about the travel-that-wasn't-a-travel that has a four page thread called, "Ummm", that was at about 11 seconds. Is that the one?

No, the travel you are referring to occured after my travel-that-wasn't-called-and-nobody-noticed occured.

For those of you with tape on this game, I direct your attention to late in the game, rewind from where the travel-that-wasn't-a-travel occured (the one with the 10-mile long thread titled "Ummm...") Run back about 30 to 45 seconds in game-clock-time and watch for a Villanova rebound on the nearside.

I wish I had recorded the game...

Phil

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Tar Heel

No, the travel you are referring to occured after my travel-that-wasn't-called-and-nobody-noticed occured.

For those of you with tape on this game, I direct your attention to late in the game, rewind from where the travel-that-wasn't-a-travel occured (the one with the 10-mile long thread titled "Ummm...") Run back about 30 to 45 seconds in game-clock-time and watch for a Villanova rebound on the nearside.

I wish I had recorded the game...

Phil

I've got the game (well, the last minute or two from when CBS finally got a clue that Utah was sunk, and switched), but no time to look. But you've got me curious so maybe in my next life, I"ll get back to it.

[BktBallRef]

It was the rebound on the missed FT, just before the travel on Foye.

No big deal. There are dozens of traveling violations that could be called in a game that aren't.

BTW, the FT violation on Foye was a very good call at the 40 second mark.

[Tar Heel]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
It was the rebound on the missed FT, just before the travel on Foye.

No big deal. There are dozens of traveling violations that could be called in a game that aren't.

Yes, that's the one, but similar to the travel in the backcourt not called by Jim Stupin in the 1992 Carolina/Michegan game.

How can it be "No big deal?" He dragged his foot a good 12 inches! C'mon, that should have been called. First thing you do when you see a player stuck on an outlet pass is watch the pivot foot for movement. Same as for play at midcourt; you're watching for over-and-back... anticipation... It's called knowing the game and anticipating what is likely to occur in any given situation.

Phil

[BktBallRef]

Sorry Phil but I've got news for you. Travels occur all the time that aren't called. You and I could watch a game and I could point out 10 to 20 travels in any game that aren't called.

[canuckrefguy]

Phil,

I don't think ANYONE wants us to start calling ALL the travels that happen....

It's called game management and having a patient whistle.

[Tar Heel]

While I agree that you can't call everything, and deciding when to blow the whistle is a matter of judgment many times, at this level, and in this case I think it should have been called. The foot was dragged a minimum of 6 inches, constituting an advantage. The player regained his balance as a result of the violation. In a game of this magnitude, I would have called it. HAd it been a 7th grade girls game, of a JV game I would have ignored it.

Pivot means pivot, it doesn't mean "except when you need to move to regain your balance".

phil

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Tar Heel
While I agree that you can't call everything, and deciding when to blow the whistle is a matter of judgment many times, at this level, and in this case I think it should have been called. The foot was dragged a minimum of 6 inches, constituting an advantage. The player regained his balance as a result of the violation. In a game of this magnitude, I would have called it. HAd it been a 7th grade girls game, of a JV game I would have ignored it.

Pivot means pivot, it doesn't mean "except when you need to move to regain your balance".

Phil, apparently you're the only one in the world(except for your buddy) who thought that travelling should have been called on the play. You've made your point-several times. Give it a break and quit lecturing us on the rules. You don't know the rules. You also don't know the philosophy behind the application of the rules. You might have a little bit more credibility if you were actually an official instead of just another fanboy whining about what he thinks is a missed call.

We already got one one North Carolina fanboy posting here- BktBallRef.There's a forum rule that says we don't have to put up with two of you. That's cruel and unusual punishment.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Mar 26th, 2005 at 10:04 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Tar Heel
In a game of this magnitude, I would have called it. HAd it been a 7th grade girls game, of a JV game I would have ignored it.

Well, when and IF you ever get a game of that magnitude, we'll look forward to seeing you make the call that all these other Sweet 16 officials are missing.

[Sven]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You might have a little bit more credibility if you were actually an official instead of just another fanboy whining about what he thinks is a missed call.

Tar Heel claims eight years of officiating experience, although he doesn't indicate the level. In any case, his post does indeed reflect fan mentality.

And, Tar Heel, if you would have done just a bit of lurking to get a feel for the tenor of this board before posting, you could have saved yourself a lot of grief.

Sven

[Tar Heel]

Uh, wow... I've posted exactly 4 times on this board, and started my last post with the statement "I agree..." and what with the vitriolic responses, it would appear that differences of opinion cannot be debated on this board without hate and flame.

Jesus...I honestly did not mean to anger anyone. My deepest apologies to anyone I offended. I figured since y'all were debating the questionable call that WAS made, and there was lively discussion over whether it was actually a travel, you'd respond in kind to a discussion of a call that, IN MY OPINION, was missed. I guess I figured wrong.

Sheesh... Ok, I surrender; you guys (gals) win; if it means that much to you, the travel was "ignorable".

For the record, since it the question was raised, I am an 8th year official in the Fresno Unit of the California Basketball Officials Association. I served for 3 years in the Tulare/Kings unit when my sales territory was down there. I put in as much time as I can, and since my ability to dedicate time varies from year to year, I am content to get whatever games my assigner sees fit to give me. There was a time when I wanted badly to get to the college level, but I started my career when i was 43, much too old to develop the track record and the fast legs to move to college ball. So, I take what I can get, and am happy to do the best job I can at the high school level.

I do take the job seriously, and work to be the best official I can be.

I am really surprised by the level of hatred, (especially from "Jurassic Referee") I am seeing over a simple difference of opinion. I don't recall personally attacking anyone (as has been done to me), and I truly do not feel that I was "lecturing" you on the rules. If you took it that way, then I genuinely and deeply apologize.

Again, my deepest apologies.

Phil

BTW, one thing I don't apologize for is being a Tar Heel fan. I was born in Chapel Hill, both my parents worked at the university, I sold programs and Cokes at Kenan Stadium for many years in my youth, and went out once with Dean Smith's daughter, Sharon. I watched Charlie Scott waaay back in the late 60's... I didn't attend the university, but it's been a part of my life since the day I was born. So, yes, I'm a Tar Heel fan...always will be.

[azbigdawg]

Ummmm...why did we jump Tar Heel so bad? his is not the first differing opinion Ive seen on the boars.... and hes wise enough to be a fan of the greates b-ball program ever.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Tar Heel

I am really surprised by the level of hatred, (especially from "Jurassic Referee") I am seeing over a simple difference of opinion. I don't recall personally attacking anyone (as has been done to me), and I truly do not feel that I was "lecturing" you on the rules.

It's not hatred and it's not a personal attack and it's not a difference of opinion. It's "enough is enough". I might even have agreed with you--the first time. You're watching the games from a fan's viewpoint, not an offical's. You're belaboring the call like a fan, not an official. You made your point. Maybe the officials actually did miss a minor travel against your beloved Tar Heels. Big whoop. There's no real need to keep making the same point over and over and over, is there?