When coaches run things

[zebraman]

I am starting to think that we are somewhat in agreement but getting hung up on words. :-)

However, I would never bounce the ball to the free throw shooter unless both of my outside officials were ready to officiate. I have seen too many cluster____s where the ball was put in play before all 3 officials were ready to go. I prefer to just stare at the Trail until he is done talking. Everyone in the gym figures out that the trail is holding up the game.

[tomegun]

Oracle, I think your way of thinking is partially what is wrong with basketball officiating.

Before you get upset, let me explain. I think there are many capable and young officials who do not get a shot because coaches are more comfortable with guys who have been around. The system should call for a coach to look at the play-calling of the official.

I have worked many places and some of them have stressed game management instead of keeping coaches happy. Donnee Gray always told us, "I can get you to stop calling technical fouls, but I can't get you to start." Another D2 assigner ran a league where coaches knew their behavior would get them T'd up. Sure, they could ask not to see an official at home, but that meant they would probably see that official on the road ASAP.

I started this post because I know the difference between a league, college or high school, where things are done right and a league where the coaches have too much power. I'm not talking about a situation where officials aren't communicating well, I'm talking about behavior that is going unchecked. Remember the quote one coach made to one of my partners about the other partner:

"Do you think you can get Joe to stop calling those p*&^y fouls."

Do you think that coach should have said that without receiving a T?

[tomegun]

I'm not going to do it, but I do know D1 officials who are notorious for not getting along with coaches.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I agree 100%. But I believe that it they do not like you, they won't respect you. Kind of the Machiavelli thing. I'd rather be loved than feared.

I'd rather not work those schools. There are a LOT of schools and leagues.

[zebraman]

I know a D-1 official who has done several Final Fours and he has several coaches who do not like him. They don't like the fact that he is in charge of the game when he officiates for them. They prefer the officials who they feel they can control to some extent. Supervisors and his partners love that official.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd rather not work those schools. There are a LOT of schools and leagues.

Yeah, the more I think about that statement, the dumber it sounds. I think it is absurd to think someone has to like me to respect me.

No matter how much we may think otherwise, coaches (generally) do not like officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

That is a copout. Top officials have very few conflicts with coaches. In 28 years, I cannot think of any officials who have advanced or maintained a higher slot without having the coaches think very highly of them as officials and people. Sycophants are transparent almost always get exposed.

I had to T 3 coaches this year. I didn't want to give any. I worked post-season for all 3 of them because they all listed me. That's being liked and respected.

Maybe that is your experience, but I see a lot of officials that have advanced at the college level and certainly the high school level by having certain coaches not like them. And they still got their playoff assignments.

Originally Posted by zebraman

There is a big difference between being respected and liked. When a coach sees an official walk into the gym and he thinks, "oh good, this guy is fair and he takes charge of the game," that is respect. When an official walks in and the coach thinks, "oh good, this guy will talk with me most of the game and listen to all my comments and criticisms," that is being liked. I don't want to be liked... I want to be respected.

I had a coach this year that got T'd up with 36 seconds left in a game in which he was blown out. Now the details are not that big of a deal, but I knew that I was going to have this coach later in the year. The coach was so mad with me he tried to report me or get my ID number after the game. I refused and I did not care what he thought. The next game I had him, he was an angel. And tonight I heard what he said to another official that he did not like me and how he thought I was terrible. Funny thing, this coach was an angel in the next game and I had no problems with him. Now it is clear he does not like me, but so what. I had the best year that I have ever had as it related to the playoffs and this coach did not like me. So much for the coach’s opinion of me.

Then again, coaches do not have that kind of say in my state.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mbyron

It's almost as if you two are having a conversation, except for the part that involves actually saying something intelligible.

It's almost as if you could figure some things out, except for the part where you can't.

I work for an assignor who is very similar to the one described in the OP. This assignor accepts calls from coaches within minutes of the conclusion of a game, and then calls the officials shortly after - many times before we are even out of the parking lot. This assignor allows coaches to complain about things and then reschedule games to pacify the complaining coach. It is ridiculous, and has caused many of us to reconsider officiating at one time or another.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It's almost as if you could figure some things out, except for the part where you can't.

I work for an assignor who is very similar to the one described in the OP. This assignor accepts calls from coaches within minutes of the conclusion of a game, and then calls the officials shortly after - many times before we are even out of the parking lot. This assignor allows coaches to complain about things and then reschedule games to pacify the complaining coach. It is ridiculous, and has caused many of us to reconsider officiating at one time or another.

OK, well that certainly sounds sucky.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It's almost as if you could figure some things out, except for the part where you can't.

I work for an assignor who is very similar to the one described in the OP. This assignor accepts calls from coaches within minutes of the conclusion of a game, and then calls the officials shortly after - many times before we are even out of the parking lot. This assignor allows coaches to complain about things and then reschedule games to pacify the complaining coach. It is ridiculous, and has caused many of us to reconsider officiating at one time or another.

Thank you for your honesty. The sad truth is this happens and it isn't about coaches liking and/or respecting officials. It is the way our society is going: the person who makes the most noise doesn't have to be right.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It's almost as if you could figure some things out, except for the part where you can't.

I work for an assignor who is very similar to the one described in the OP. This assignor accepts calls from coaches within minutes of the conclusion of a game, and then calls the officials shortly after - many times before we are even out of the parking lot. This assignor allows coaches to complain about things and then reschedule games to pacify the complaining coach. It is ridiculous, and has caused many of us to reconsider officiating at one time or another.

Assignors I work for have a policy of not accepting any coach calls until the day after a game. The coach gets a cooling off period and then can make a better determination if a call is warranted. If they still call, the 1st question the supervisor will ask is, "Did you watch the tape?" If the answer is no, click. We feel good about working for those who back us.
A while back I worked for a high school association which had a policy that allowed a school principal to buy officials off a game - the coach had not the authority to do so. IOW, the official scheduled for the game would be paid a full game fee by the school in question not to do the game. Of course the assignor would then switch that official to another site and he would get paid for that game plus the one he didn't do. Our assignor would then look at the rest of the schedule and if that official was not scheduled for that school anymore that season, he would schedule him there at least one or two more times. That way he would test the coach to see if it was a temporary thing. If they wanted to continue to pay the official for not working, great!!
There was a running joke amongst us to see who could get a coach to buy him off so we could get paid for 2 to work one.
Again, we felt good about working for those who back us.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Thank you for your honesty. The sad truth is this happens and it isn't about coaches liking and/or respecting officials. It is the way our society is going: the person who makes the most noise doesn't have to be right.

It all comes down to who the assignor works for. In my case, the assignor works for the conferences, therefore has to keep the commissioner happy. The best way to do that is to make sure the AD's are not calling the commish. How to do that? Keep the coaches from complaining to their AD's...it's a ridiculous situation. It has nothing to do with liking or respecting - just manipulating.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It all comes down to who the assignor works for. In my case, the assignor works for the conferences, therefore has to keep the commissioner happy. The best way to do that is to make sure the AD's are not calling the commish. How to do that? Keep the coaches from complaining to their AD's...it's a ridiculous situation. It has nothing to do with liking or respecting - just manipulating.

Maybe, but if she had any fortitude, she'd take the call and blow it off. Sort of like the customer service rep I talked to last week.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, but if she had any fortitude, she'd take the call and blow it off. Sort of like the customer service rep I talked to last week.

Or else talk like the software reps: got a complaint about Snaqwells? "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It all comes down to who the assignor works for.

This is the point I was going to make. Rocky just beat me to it. Some areas have an assignor who is hired by the officials' association. For my college games (D2/D3/juco), the assignor is hired by an organization that negotiates between conferences and the officials' association. They're kind of an objective 3rd party. In those types of cases, the assignors aren't beholden to the coaches or schools that they assign for. If anything, they are more likely to take the official's side.

But some assignors are hired directly by the conference. This is how it works for my high school schedule. In that case, the assignor has to please the coaches to keep the job. If enough coaches complain to the commissioner about the assignor, s/he is out. So that assignor is under more pressure to take those phone calls from the irate coach right away, and maybe even to discipline officials over borderline incidents in order to keep the irate coach happy to hang on to the assigning job.