Article pointing finger at Racist Referees

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What I am actually considering is you consider everything. Where people live, experience, conferences the officials are from, physical fitness, big game history or any number of things we talk about here as "qualifications." I do not see the harm in looking for diverse crews to work certain games if the result is to give an appearance of fairness.
...

A few years ago the diversity of the officials was a big deal in a post season game where a coach put it front and center. You do not hear that constant complaining anymore. Out of the 12 officials that worked the State Finals in my state for the Boy's Class 3A and 4A Tournament (big schools), 3 were Black. Out of the 8 teams, 5 were entirely Black teams from the Head coaches, all the players and the water boy. And the top players on the other teams were mostly Black except one school. And that school beat on of the teams out of that five by a last second shot by a player that was Black. Are you telling me that if our state wanted to have more than 3 African-American officials would have been unacceptable considering what the tournament looked like?

Peace

Yes, that is unacceptable. Answer this....Since Illinois is ~75% white, do you, in the name of consistency, suggest that several of those teams should have been disallowed from the tourney since they didn't match the population of the state?? ... I didn't think so.

In fact, the officials exactly matched the population of the sate. I'd say that, from looking purely at the numbers, the mix of officials was not suspect no matter how much noise someone made about it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At the high school level I feel strongly that this is about education. This is not even the college level. I feel like the participants should have the right to see people in leadership roles that look like them. To me it sends a bad message if you say to the players, you can play the game, but when it comes to running the game you cannot participate. And that is why for younger people what happen in this past election was so emotional for some many.

Peace

If 50% a team is black but only 20% of the school is black, should they kick 3 black kids off the team to make room for 3 white kids...all to make sure the team looks like those around them? (and no, I don't).

Again, the officials in your example above seem to represent the general society almost perfectly. The fact that the all-black team(s) beat the all/mostly-white team(s) from some other area doesn't imply anything about the ability of the officials and should have no influence one way or the other about who is selected to work the tourney. It should be the best 12...and in a large pool, that 12 will resemble the general population.

I can tell you that from the Portland area, the representation of minorities in the state tournament is at a level that is both greater than their proportion of the population and also greater than their proportion of basketball officials. And they're not selected by color either....they are simply getting the recognition of their peers (all officials)..who put them there based on their abilities. In other words, they earned it...it was not handed to them to make some numbers look good.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, that is unacceptable. Answer this....Since Illinois is ~75% white, do you, in the name of consistency, suggest that several of those teams should have been disallowed from the tourney since they didn't match the population of the state?? ... I didn't think so.

In fact, the officials exactly matched the population of the sate. I'd say that, from looking purely at the numbers, the mix of officials was not suspect no matter how much noise someone made about it.


If 50% a team is black but only 20% of the school is black, should they kick 3 black kids off the team to make room for 3 white kids...all to make sure the team looks like those around them? (and no, I don't).

Again, the officials in your example above seem to represent the general society almost perfectly. The fact that the all-black team(s) beat the all/mostly-white team(s) from some other area doesn't imply anything about the ability of the officials and should have no influence one way or the other about who is selected to work the tourney. It should be the best 12...and in a large pool, that 12 will resemble the general population.

I can tell you that from the Portland area, the representation of minorities in the state tournament is at a level that is both greater than their proportion of the population and also greater than their proportion of basketball officials. And they're not selected by color either....they are simply getting the recognition of their peers (all officials)..who put them there based on their abilities. In other words, they earned it...it was not handed to them to make some numbers look good.

I do not think that Illinois is 75% white. For one the largest city in the state is the third largest city in the country and does not have that racial background. And if the entire city of Chicago decided to vote a certain way in an election, Downstate Illinois would be out voted. It might be closer to 50%, but I do not have all the data. But I grew up in rural Illinois and the town I currently live in has more people in that little suburb than where I grew up. Almost every big city in Illinois does not have an overwhelming white population in places like Aurora, Springfield, Peoria and even Rockford.

I do not even know what you are talking about when you say consistency, because most of the officials assigned to tournament assignments do not reflect many of the teams, and I have not been complaining or suggesting that there should be such a representation.

Maybe this is making you upset because someone is telling you that what you think is not the only voice on this topic.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have not been complaining or suggesting that there should be such a representation.

Exactly!!!

RichMSN asked a specific question. I answered, as did JRut, that it already happens. Neither one of us complained that it happens.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Exactly!!!

RichMSN asked a specific question. I answered, as did JRut, that it already happens. Neither one of us complained that it happens.

That pretty much says it all.

Peace

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That pretty much says it all.

Peace

Sadly, it just repeats the original evasion of the question.

The question was not "Do you think this happens" the question was "Do you find at acceptable for it to happen".

I am still curious about your stance on the "racial" make up of the athletes themselves in relation to the racial makeup of the populations they come from.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Sadly, it just repeats the original evasion of the question.

The question was not "Do you think this happens" the question was "Do you find at acceptable for it to happen".

Why are you so offended that there is a suggestion that there be a more diverse officiating staff or crew, but you are not equally offended when there is a complete exclusion of a group of people that clearly are participating in the event?

Originally Posted by Berkut

I am still curious about your stance on the "racial" make up of the athletes themselves in relation to the racial makeup of the populations they come from.

I cannot speak for where you live, but most schools I come in contact with; the kids that attend those schools come from those school districts. Even the private schools have kids that are relatively from the community in which the schools are located. I do not think you can have schools and exclude people that are from the community if the entire school reflects the community. I guess you could, but it would be very hard. Then again I am not sure what that has to do with who works games?

Peace

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why are you so offended that there is a suggestion that there be a more diverse officiating staff or crew, but you are not equally offended when there is a complete exclusion of a group of people that clearly are participating in the event?

Yet another strawman.

I am not offended by the suggestion that there may be a more diverse officiating crew. That is a a bald faced lie.

Nor have I said I would NOT be offended if in fact there was a complete exclusion of a group from participating - in fact I would find that *highly* offensive, and explicitly said do.

And again, you are avoiding the issue, now in favor of rather offensive personal claims about my position.

I cannot speak for where you live, but most schools I come in contact with; the kids that attend those schools come from those school districts. Even the private schools have kids that are relatively from the community in which the schools are located. I do not think you can have schools and exclude people that are from the community if the entire school reflects the community. I guess you could, but it would be very hard. Then again I am not sure what that has to do with who works games?

Peace

Again, that is not what I asked, and I certainly did not suggest that anyone be excluded - that is your claim, not mine.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Sadly, it just repeats the original evasion of the question.

The question was not "Do you think this happens" the question was "Do you find at acceptable for it to happen".

I am still curious about your stance on the "racial" make up of the athletes themselves in relation to the racial makeup of the populations they come from.

LOL!!!

Peace

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

LOL!!!

Peace

So we are left with your claim that officials should somehow represent, on a ratio basis, the make-up of the players - but the players, however, should NOT represent on any kind of similar ratio, the populations that they are drawn from.

Gosh, seems kind of inconsistent.

Maybe we should just quit trying to make intolerant people happy, and select the best players and best officials, and ignore what color their skin might be. If that causes some idiots on either side to be unhappy, we should just congratulate ourselves. Bigots should be unhappy. It means you are doing something right.

Just a thought.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think that Illinois is 75% white.

2006 numbers from Illinois Mapstats: White 79.3%
Black 15.0%