Article pointing finger at Racist Referees

[just another ref]

diverse: differing from one another

I don't see where the article mentions race. He may want a crew made of a doctor, a lawyer, and an Indian chief.

[JRutledge]

Here is a way to simply take away any claims. Give officials of all levels similar opportunities, then these comments go away. Until you do that, you will have these claims.

There was a claim a few years ago by a coach that said the officials were not Black. Then the state started putting officials in situations to take away that claim.

I do not know the situation here, I do not know if the claim is valid. But when you have a sport where many of the top teams and players are of a certain race and you never schedule officials that look like the participants, then you have these claims.

There was a nationally televised game on TV a few years back with three Black D1 Officials. It was such an unusual thing in this particular conference. I sent a text message to one of the officials working the game showing how surprised I was by this occurrence. He responded to me, "Hey, we thought the same thing."

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is a way to simply take away any claims. Give officials of all levels similar opportunities, then these comments go away. Until you do that, you will have these claims.

There was a claim a few years ago by a coach that said the officials were not Black. Then the state started putting officials in situations to take away that claim.

I do not know the situation here, I do not know if the claim is valid. But when you have a sport where many of the top teams and players are of a certain race and you never schedule officials that look like the participants, then you have these claims.

There was a nationally televised game on TV a few years back with three Black D1 Officials. It was such an unusual thing in this particular conference. I sent a text message to one of the officials working the game showing how surprised I was by this occurrence. He responded to me, "Hey, we thought the same thing."

Peace

People can "Claim" anything they want. Claims in and of themselves do not inherently contain ANY truth what-so-ever. Talk is cheap so I could give a rip what any person says. This (imo ignorant, irresponsible and inflammatory) journalist can right as much ridiculous crap as he wants. If we give it any attention what so ever we give him exactly what he wants... a reaction. Its like my 5 year old son doing something to irritate his 8 yr old sister... he does if for the reaction. If she pays it no attention he stops. If this guy gets no reaction, he has submitted a totally useless article.

Lastly... race has absolutely ZERO to do with capability in the officiating ranks. Luckily most assignors recognize this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

People can "Claim" anything they want. Claims in and of themselves do not inherently contain ANY truth what-so-ever. Talk is cheap so I could give a rip what any person says. This (imo ignorant, irresponsible and inflammatory) journalist can right as much ridiculous crap as he wants. If we give it any attention what so ever we give him exactly what he wants... a reaction. Its like my 5 year old son doing something to irritate his 8 yr old sister... he does if for the reaction. If she pays it no attention he stops. If this guy gets no reaction, he has submitted a totally useless article.

Lastly... race has absolutely ZERO to do with capability in the officiating ranks. Luckily most assignors recognize this.

Unless I missed something in the article posted, there was not claim of "racism." I think that was the "perception" of the people reading this article and posted it here.

Also this to me is just like any other discussion we have about perception. We get all upset if people claim we are bias based on where we live, who we know and how we know them. I can tell you that in many cases assignors and our state assign people to situations based on race and how the perceptions of the contest is officiating by the people working the games. It is a backdrop of many games. And it is taken completely away by putting on diverse crews which this article seemed to be about. And when you make an effort to have diversity in crews, then it is funny how that claim goes away.

This is no different than other seen biases and like many others biases this is probably not fair either.

I have no idea if what the author is claiming is remotely true and honestly do not care. This is no different than someone giving their opinion and this topic happens to be from another point of view. How many articles have we read here where the motives of the officials are called into question. And how many times have people here been the people calling those individuals motives or actions into questions. The difference is most of us here do not know the individuals or the actual situation involved.

No, it is about race, so let us completely dismiss all claims when we sometimes embrace other claims.

Peace

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I missed something in the article posted, there was not claim of "racism." I think that was the "perception" of the people reading this article and posted it here.

"Year after year, children's dreams are deferred by questionable calls that appear to be biased" (Original article in question.)

The original author did not use the word racism. He did use the word biased, and he says in the rest of the article that the risk of bias increases without diversity. I wonder what the author would deem acceptable diversity in the following situations? If we have two mostly African-American schools? Two all whiite schools? Two schools with sizeable Native American populations? Asian? Gay? Transgender? Muslim? Hispanic?

I know there is racism. I know there are racist people in basketball. I think we should encourage all sorts of people to become refs. But who will decide what is a diverse crew?

On a more general point, are we ever going to come to the place that Dr. King talked about?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

"Year after year, children's dreams are deferred by questionable calls that appear to be biased" (Original article in question.)

The original author did not use the word racism. He did use the word biased, and he says in the rest of the article that the risk of bias increases without diversity. I wonder what the author would deem acceptable diversity in the following situations? If we have two mostly African-American schools? Two all whiite schools? Two schools with sizeable Native American populations? Asian? Gay? Transgender? Muslim? Hispanic?

Why do people want to compare these issues with groups that are not involved? Forgive me but I doubt in Indiana in the Midwest there are "gay" or Trans gender schools. That is not the issue and this is why people can never have these discussions seriously because someone wants to avoid the real issue.

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I know there is racism. I know there are racist people in basketball. I think we should encourage all sorts of people to become refs. But who will decide what is a diverse crew?

Funny, I did not read the word "racism" in this article. He talked about diversity. It has been said in many circles that certain individuals do not know how to referee certain groups of people because they have been exposed to those groups of people. For example where I live there are officials in certain areas that are not exposed to some of the best players and teams because they never work those teams during the season. Then when the post season comes, the officials that were working their games never see those teams or never get an opportunity to work in the post season at all. Now is that because of "racism." Maybe institutionally, but not personally or consciously there is an attempt to avoid diversity. Even in officiating where the sport is very diverse, many African-American officials are getting the short end of the stick. That being said, I have been exposed to places where there is a conscious effort to find and look for officials that are of all colors or genders. IT is not perfect, but it is a lot better than it used to be.

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

On a more general point, are we ever going to come to the place that Dr. King talked about?

If you think Dr. King was talking about not ever mentioning issues of race, you did not know much about Dr. King.

Peace

[jeffpea]

I would be willing to guess (I said "guess" not "wager" or "bet"...that's illegal - right Mr. Donaghy?)...that the author of this article was cheering for the team that lost.....

I am continually amazed at the degree to which emotional involvement (wanting one particular team to win) clouds the vision of and impairs the rational thinking by people watching a sporting event. If those who criticize the game officials are truly honest - I bet 90% of the time they would admit to wanting one team to win (and of course the "other" team won and thereby the impetus to criticize the officials...)

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why do people want to compare these issues with groups that are not involved? Forgive me but I doubt in Indiana in the Midwest there are "gay" or Trans gender schools. That is not the issue and this is why people can never have these discussions seriously because someone wants to avoid the real issue.




Funny, I did not read the word "racism" in this article. He talked about diversity. It has been said in many circles that certain individuals do not know how to referee certain groups of people because they have been exposed to those groups of people. For example where I live there are officials in certain areas that are not exposed to some of the best players and teams because they never work those teams during the season. Then when the post season comes, the officials that were working their games never see those teams or never get an opportunity to work in the post season at all. Now is that because of "racism." Maybe institutionally, but not personally or consciously there is an attempt to avoid diversity. Even in officiating where the sport is very diverse, many African-American officials are getting the short end of the stick. That being said, I have been exposed to places where there is a conscious effort to find and look for officials that are of all colors or genders. IT is not perfect, but it is a lot better than it used to be.



If you think Dr. King was talking about not ever mentioning issues of race, you did not know much about Dr. King.

Peace

I apologize for the hyperbole. But what criteria do we use for diversity? Do teams of Asians/Hispanics/Muslims/Native Americans also deserve diverse referee crews? What about teams of nerds? (As a former Capt. of the Nerd patrol this one is close to the heart).

The original author used the word bias, instead of racism. Did you understand that his use of the word bias meant a subconscious reaction vs. the conscious act of racism? Can one ever become significantly less biased?

You challenged me on my reading of Dr. King. I admit to now being better informed. This link was a good summary I think. Misusing MLK Legacy and the Colorblind Theory

Is the US getting better or worse in terms of race relations? Are we making progress? Will race always divide us? What signs can one use to judge if we are improving or not?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I missed something in the article posted, there was not claim of "racism."

You missed something.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

You missed something.

Simple, show a quote.

Peace

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Simple, show a quote.

Rut - if you can't see it, I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I missed something in the article posted, there was not claim of "racism."

Then you're more blind than I ever imagined.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then you're more blind than I ever imagined.

And we've imagined plenty.

[26 Year Gap]

In a perfect world, there would be a pro-portionate number of officials to match the area. So, ideally, roughly half the officials should be female. And the racial demographics of the general population should be matched by those who choose to officiate sporting events. If things are out of pro-portion, then maybe a concerted recruiting effort should take place to put things more in balance. After all, if the pool of officials matches the general populace, then making things balanced should be a piece of cake.

I have just moved to an area with a county population of over 900,000. About 3/4 of the 80 member officials attended the meeting I went to last week. The demographics from the Census Bureau did not reflect the mix in the meeting. And it doesn't really matter to me. I will have opportunities to work with a lot of new folks--black and white--here. I am looking forward to it. I think I can learn from all of them. I don't care if my partner is black or white, male or female. And I don't care what race the coaches or players are, either. I just want to improve.

I just came from one of the whitest states in the country. A local high school there won the state championship and there was an equal number of black & white players on the team. During AAU season leagues I heard questions about why there might be so many black girls on the team. From other officials. I never really thought about it because they are all teammates and get along great on and off the court. Were the questioners biased? I don't believe so. I think they were just surprised because of the state's demographics that it could occur anyplace other than Burlington which is the largest city. Most of the officials are impressed with how well the team works together and the JV team is the same way and they have won 40 straight. And it is because they play good basketball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then you're more blind than I ever imagined.

Or we do not look through the same prism of life. And if we did, you would come out and say what he said, instead of just implying it was said. It is clear I will say what is on my mind.

Peace