Article pointing finger at Racist Referees

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure, things are better. Perfect, no...but certainly better. Anyone that says otherwise full of crap or being dishonest...ask them if they'd really like to go back to what it was like 50, 100, or 200 years ago.

All I have to do is look around my workplace and see a large number of non-whites working very well paying professional jobs...and I've been on the hiring team that hired many of them....based strictly on ability. They're also being equally well represented in management....in dramatically stronger numbers than the greater area's demographics. None of that would not have been the case 40 or 50 years ago.

My mom was the first African-American female to be a chairperson at the University when she came to the place she ended up working for 30 years. I think there are exactly zero chairpersons that are African-American woman since she left that post over 20 years ago. And education is a place where many African-Americans attempt to go into. And I just joined a church in the middle of suburbs and it is all-Black (I could have counted two when I attended a couple of Sundays ago). And I have not talked about schools and places people live. If better means that you do not fear for your life if I walked into an area or if I whistled at a woman of another race. But to say that things are so much better is not true. Also we do not have laws that prohibit marriage or dating or even going to schools. But the social differences are often still there.

Honestly I do not give a crap about who is hired in a sport. This area is just a very small area that means anything in the bigger scheme of things. But I would expect if the players, coaches and fans are coming from all kinds of places, I think it is not too much to ask that the officials reflect those things. All the good officials do not just come from one place.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

You missed something.

Simple, show a quote.

Peace

[Amesman]

When it comes to presentation, perception CAN be everything. Not that it should be, or taint calls, outcomes, etc. But it's the classic glass half-full, glass half-empty scenario. How do you see it?

When I played, I used to get ticked off because there was no question officials were cutting shorter players slack because I was taller and just "should have done better because of my height." Ah, the bias.

One thing that should be pointed out, however, and it seems it was blurred at least in early postings. The OP article writer was NOT a sports reporter, or even a journalist working for the newspaper.

He was a guest opinion writer. And what frames his opinions? He is leader of the Urban League so, no, he does not come to the table with unbiased views. (None of us do.)

(From his organization's Web site: "Today the Fort Wayne Urban League continues to fulfill its mission through the delivery of programs that address contemporary needs, as we pursue our vision “to be the premier catalyst for positive change in the quality of life for African Americans and others in the greater Fort Wayne Community.” "

That doesn't validate or invalidate his views. But it does frame them.

America by and large still does a lousy job with race relations. From both (all) sides of the equation. But we are trying, which is more than can be said for some pretty homogenous lands out there.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Simple, show a quote.

Rut - if you can't see it, I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

Rut - if you can't see it, I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

I can see a lot of things, I am just wondering are you doing the same thing as the person from the article. Taking a situation and blowing it out of proportion. BTW, you can talk to me about this through PM if you do not feel comfortable.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But I would expect if the players, coaches and fans are coming from all kinds of places, I think it is not too much to ask that the officials reflect those things. All the good officials do not just come from one place.

Peace

Are you really suggesting that the officials match the demographics of the players? Perhaps by selecting officials simply by the color of their skin....just to make the number match? If so, fine, but in the order of consistency and equality, do you also suggest that the the players match the demographics of the area the team represents? That teams can only have players in the same percentages as their school or region?

The more appropriate question to ask is whether the number officials in any given area roughly reflect the area as a whole? Or perhaps, to a lessor degree, the numbers of players from 10-40 years ago since many refs came form the pool of players at that time.

[Mark Padgett]

When I officiate, I do see two different colors - home jersey color and visiting jersey color. Period.

To be scientifically accurate, however, I guess I see only one since home jerseys are white, and white is defined as "absence of color".

Anyway, I would hope to think that all officials are "color blind", except when it comes to reporting which team the foul was on, of course.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

I only need to turn on the TV and watch our state tournaments to see examples of that every year. And it does a great disservice to those females/minorities who do deserve the assignments.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

What is most disheartening is that people still have preconceived notions about something they refer to as "race". The genome project proved scientifically there is no such thing as far as science is concerned. What humans share is commonality of genetic tagging. For example, genetically, being a white male I share more genetic traits with a black male than I do with a white female. This fact throws the concept of "race" right out the window.

Mitochondrial Eve is the name given by researchers to the woman who is defined as the matrilineal most recent common ancestor for all currently living humans. Passed down from mother to offspring, her mitochondrial DNA is now found in all living humans: every mtDNA in every living person is derived from hers. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor, although they lived at different times. She is believed to have lived about 140,000 years ago in Eastern Africa: specifically, in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya, or Tanzania. Mitochondrial Eve is the MRCA of all humans via the mitochondrial DNA pathway, not the unqualified MRCA of all humanity. All living humans can trace their ancestry back to the MRCA via at least one of their parents, but Mitochondrial Eve is defined via the maternal line. Therefore, she necessarily lived at least as long, though likely much longer, ago than the MRCA of all humanity. The existence of Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam does not imply the existence of population bottlenecks or a first couple. They each may have lived within a large human population at different times.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Amesman

When it comes to presentation, perception CAN be everything. Not that it should be, or taint calls, outcomes, etc. But it's the classic glass half-full, glass half-empty scenario. How do you see it?

When I played, I used to get ticked off because there was no question officials were cutting shorter players slack because I was taller and just "should have done better because of my height." Ah, the bias.

One thing that should be pointed out, however, and it seems it was blurred at least in early postings. The OP article writer was NOT a sports reporter, or even a journalist working for the newspaper.

He was a guest opinion writer. And what frames his opinions? He is leader of the Urban League so, no, he does not come to the table with unbiased views. (None of us do.)

(From his organization's Web site: "Today the Fort Wayne Urban League continues to fulfill its mission through the delivery of programs that address contemporary needs, as we pursue our vision “to be the premier catalyst for positive change in the quality of life for African Americans and others in the greater Fort Wayne Community.” "

That doesn't validate or invalidate his views. But it does frame them.

America by and large still does a lousy job with race relations. From both (all) sides of the equation. But we are trying, which is more than can be said for some pretty homogenous lands out there.

The article was written by a fanboy. Why can't any of you see this?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

When I officiate, I do see two different colors - home jersey color and visiting jersey color. Period.

To be scientifically accurate, however, I guess I see only one since home jerseys are white, and white is defined as "absence of color".

Anyway, I would hope to think that all officials are "color blind", except when it comes to reporting which team the foul was on, of course.

The numerals on the white jerseys have pigment, though.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I missed something in the article posted, there was not claim of "racism."

Then you're more blind than I ever imagined.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Are you really suggesting that the officials match the demographics of the players?

On many levels my answer is yes. Why is officiating different than other aspects of life? My first job out of college I was hired to work in a community that mirrored the people I would be working with on a daily basis. I am sure that was done too for the reasons this article was written.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Perhaps by selecting officials simply by the color of their skin....just to make the number match? If so, fine, but in the order of consistency and equality, do you also suggest that the the players match the demographics of the area the team represents? That teams can only have players in the same percentages as their school or region?

What I am actually considering is you consider everything. Where people live, experience, conferences the officials are from, physical fitness, big game history or any number of things we talk about here as "qualifications." I do not see the harm in looking for diverse crews to work certain games if the result is to give an appearance of fairness.

Cameron, I have worked several games with an all-Black crew. It is amazing in this day and age the amount of comments good and bad that were made about it. When I watch a game on TV or in the playoffs and I see a crew that looks nothing like the players on the floor, no one bats and eye. Even the officials look little like the participants of the fans in the stands. I do not understand why that same consideration cannot be extended to others. To me that is a fair to consider races as one of many factors. I did not say exclude anyone or to never have situations where officials do not reflect who is on the court. I just think there are those in decision making positions that can look for other officials that look more like the participants if possible.

I will say in my state there has been an effort to do just that. I am not saying that this is perfect or that you could not find more, but they are certainly not excluding people from the process. And yes, they consider geography, color, experience, conferences you work, and ratings to make those decisions. This is also not just anecdotal comment, there is some scientific evidence that shows this and the words from the people making those decisions have also made references to those things. Their efforts have diminished the complaints that would take place to a minimum. A few years ago the diversity of the officials was a big deal in a post season game where a coach put it front and center. You do not hear that constant complaining anymore. Out of the 12 officials that worked the State Finals in my state for the Boy's Class 3A and 4A Tournament (big schools), 3 were Black. Out of the 8 teams, 5 were entirely Black teams from the Head coaches, all the players and the water boy. And the top players on the other teams were mostly Black except one school. And that school beat on of the teams out of that five by a last second shot by a player that was Black. Are you telling me that if our state wanted to have more than 3 African-American officials would have been unacceptable considering what the tournament looked like?

At the high school level I feel strongly that this is about education. This is not even the college level. I feel like the participants should have the right to see people in leadership roles that look like them. To me it sends a bad message if you say to the players, you can play the game, but when it comes to running the game you cannot participate. And that is why for younger people what happen in this past election was so emotional for some many.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

On many levels my answer is yes. Why is officiating different than other aspects of life? My first job out of college I was hired to work in a community that mirrored the people I would be working with on a daily basis. I am sure that was done too for the reasons this article was written.



What I am actually considering is you consider everything. Where people live, experience, conferences the officials are from, physical fitness, big game history or any number of things we talk about here as "qualifications." I do not see the harm in looking for diverse crews to work certain games if the result is to give an appearance of fairness.

Cameron, I have worked several games with an all-Black crew. It is amazing in this day and age the amount of comments good and bad that were made about it. When I watch a game on TV or in the playoffs and I see a crew that looks nothing like the players on the floor, no one bats and eye. Even the officials look little like the participants of the fans in the stands. I do not understand why that same consideration cannot be extended to others. To me that is a fair to consider races as one of many factors. I did not say exclude anyone or to never have situations where officials do not reflect who is on the court. I just think there are those in decision making positions that can look for other officials that look more like the participants if possible.

I will say in my state there has been an effort to do just that. I am not saying that this is perfect or that you could not find more, but they are certainly not excluding people from the process. And yes, they consider geography, color, experience, conferences you work, and ratings to make those decisions. This is also not just anecdotal comment, there is some scientific evidence that shows this and the words from the people making those decisions have also made references to those things. Their efforts have diminished the complaints that would take place to a minimum. A few years ago the diversity of the officials was a big deal in a post season game where a coach put it front and center. You do not hear that constant complaining anymore. Out of the 12 officials that worked the State Finals in my state for the Boy's Class 3A and 4A Tournament (big schools), 3 were Black. Out of the 8 teams, 5 were entirely Black teams from the Head coaches, all the players and the water boy. And the top players on the other teams were mostly Black except one school. And that school beat on of the teams out of that five by a last second shot by a player that was Black. Are you telling me that if our state wanted to have more than 3 African-American officials would have been unacceptable considering what the tournament looked like?

At the high school level I feel strongly that this is about education. This is not even the college level. I feel like the participants should have the right to see people in leadership roles that look like them. To me it sends a bad message if you say to the players, you can play the game, but when it comes to running the game you cannot participate. And that is why for younger people what happen in this past election was so emotional for some many.

Peace

So you'd have no problem with picking only white officials then, to the exclusion of black officials, if the players on both teams are white?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then you're more blind than I ever imagined.

And we've imagined plenty.