Closely Guarded Count

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really?

I've been told that many times, by many different sources.

I don't happen to agree with it, however.

[mick]

Anyone noticing some very long seconds between the counts ?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mick

Anyone noticing some very long seconds between the counts ?

Concur. We were in the Chat Room the other night discussing this issue - one ref (forget which game) kept spreading his arms and the defender was almost touching the offensive player. Seems inconsistent at best.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Another possibility is that since you mentioned the player with the ball had their back to the basket, that player is most likely a post player, therefore the L would have on-ball coverage, and the L never has the 5-sec. count in NCAA-M or Fed.

Really?????????????? What about a 2 man game?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SAK

Really?????????????? What about a 2 man game?

I really hope you are not equating his comments to 2 Person? This was not a 2 Person game.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by SAK

Really?????????????? What about a 2 man game?

It's apparent we're talking 3 man in this thread.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

It's apparent we're talking 3 man in this thread.

That is obvious unless Steve Welmer broke his foot again?

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Watched a lot of basketball this past week, like everyone else, but had a question about a closely guarded count. Does the player with the ball have to be facing the defender for there to be a CG count? Don't see that in the rules, but saw several situations where the offensive player would have the ball with his back to the basket, just outside the lane, and be dribbling trying to set up the defender for a post move. But no CG count was shown by the official. I wouldn't consider a few set-up dribbles to be actual moves to the basket, so why wouldn't you have a count here?

For a defender to obtain (NFHS)/establish (NCAA/FIBA) legal guarding position against an opponent, the defender must have both feet in contact with the floor (inbounds) and facing the opponent (the offensive player does not have to be facing the defensive player). There is no minimum distance required to obtain/establish legal guarding posisition, i.e., a defender can obtain/establish a legal guarding position against an opponent this is fifty (50) feet away, as long as he meets the requirments of obtaining/establishing a legal guarding position.

MTD, Sr.

[ILMalti]

4.23.Art 2 : Describes obtaining initial LGP
so in the scenario described no LGP was established. Hence no count.
However, IF LGP was initially established then, the opponent could turn around (giving his back ) as described in 4.23.3b and the count should continue as long as the 6 feet maximum distance is retained and was started when LGP was established.

This is my understaning

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

4.23.Art 2 : Describes obtaining initial LGP
so in the scenario described no LGP was established. Hence no count.
However, IF LGP was initially established then, the opponent could turn around (giving his back ) as described in 4.23.3b and the count should continue as long as the 6 feet maximum distance is retained and was started when LGP was established.

This is my understaning

If you are talking about the initial post, it was the offensive player that had their back to the defense. It was assumed the defender was facing the offensive player. So, yes, a count should be started/going.

[OHBBREF]

In both the men's and women's tournaments there has been a great inconsistency thus far in my opinion about when the count is on and off,
last night I watche the womens tourney and a player with the ball had a 6' 9" defender from Mich state guarding her while she held the ball, the defenders Arm was extended and she still about a foot away and there was a count.
I am not sure the defender was within 6 feet much less 3 feet.
in the men's game there have been several situations where players have been still with defenders right on top of them with no counts or dribbling for well over 5 seconds (clock time) with no calls.
If I had one complaint about something being called or not in the tourney's that would be it.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If you are talking about the initial post, it was the offensive player that had their back to the defense. It was assumed the defender was facing the offensive player. So, yes, a count should be started/going.

Yes, that is the basis for my question......the offensive player has his back to the defender, who is facing the offensive player and within 6', but there is no CG count signaled. Had a game Wed and when this happened, I started my count. Ball passed out before I got to 5, but came right back into the post (outside the lane, post player not making a move, just dribbling and waiting for an opening) and I started the count again. There was a steal and we went to the other end, but the offensive coach was on me about doing a CG count when the offensive player wasn't FACING the defense.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Fritz

the offensive coach was on me about doing a CG count when the offensive player wasn't FACING the defense.

Tell him he's a freaking idiot and it doesn't matter which direction the offensive player is facing here.

Or just ignore him.