Closely Guarded Count

[Fritz]

Watched a lot of basketball this past week, like everyone else, but had a question about a closely guarded count. Does the player with the ball have to be facing the defender for there to be a CG count? Don't see that in the rules, but saw several situations where the offensive player would have the ball with his back to the basket, just outside the lane, and be dribbling trying to set up the defender for a post move. But no CG count was shown by the official. I wouldn't consider a few set-up dribbles to be actual moves to the basket, so why wouldn't you have a count here?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Watched a lot of basketball this past week, like everyone else, but had a question about a closely guarded count. Does the player with the ball have to be facing the defender for there to be a CG count? Don't see that in the rules, but saw several situations where the offensive player would have the ball with his back to the basket, just outside the lane, and be dribbling trying to set up the defender for a post move. But no CG count was shown by the official. I wouldn't consider a few set-up dribbles to be actual moves to the basket, so why wouldn't you have a count here?

The common opinion is that a player is not "guarding" unless facing an opponent.

That being said, maybe there was no count because the officials did not feel they were in the proper distance (6 feet for men's basketball).

Without seeing the play in question or talking to the officials, it is hard to know why there was no count or if there were other reasons.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Watched a lot of basketball this past week, like everyone else, but had a question about a closely guarded count. Does the player with the ball have to be facing the defender for there to be a CG count? Don't see that in the rules, but saw several situations where the offensive player would have the ball with his back to the basket, just outside the lane, and be dribbling trying to set up the defender for a post move. But no CG count was shown by the official. I wouldn't consider a few set-up dribbles to be actual moves to the basket, so why wouldn't you have a count here?

Hard to say, but please remember moving to the basket is irrrelevant for a closely guarded count. Three second counts are different.

[M&M Guy]

Another possibility is that since you mentioned the player with the ball had their back to the basket, that player is most likely a post player, therefore the L would have on-ball coverage, and the L never has the 5-sec. count in NCAA-M or Fed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Another possibility is that since you mentioned the player with the ball had their back to the basket, that player is most likely a post player, therefore the L would have on-ball coverage, and the L never has the 5-sec. count in NCAA-M or Fed.

Really?

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The common opinion is that a player is not "guarding" unless facing an opponent.

That being said, maybe there was no count because the officials did not feel they were in the proper distance (6 feet for men's basketball).

Without seeing the play in question or talking to the officials, it is hard to know why there was no count or if there were other reasons.

Peace

I am inclined to go with your first comment. The defender was certainly within 6 feet. I've seen this even at the top of the circle where the offensive player is just holding the ball, his back to the defender who is right behind him, waiting on various players to make cuts and such. They never exceed the 5 seconds before either passing or starting a dribble, but I rarely see an official demonstrating a count until the offensive player turns to face the defender. So I was just curious if there was some understanding that you had to be facing each other in order to be "closely guarded."

[mick]

Anyone noticing some very long seconds between the counts ?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really?

I've been told that many times, by many different sources.

I don't happen to agree with it, however.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Fritz

I am inclined to go with your first comment. The defender was certainly within 6 feet. I've seen this even at the top of the circle where the offensive player is just holding the ball, his back to the defender who is right behind him, waiting on various players to make cuts and such. They never exceed the 5 seconds before either passing or starting a dribble, but I rarely see an official demonstrating a count until the offensive player turns to face the defender. So I was just curious if there was some understanding that you had to be facing each other in order to be "closely guarded."

I have never heard of this unwritten rule. The defender should be facing the player with the ball, but it does not matter which direction the player with the ball is facing.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Fritz

So I was just curious if there was some understanding that you had to be facing each other in order to be "closely guarded."

Nope, there is no mention in the rules about "facing each other", only that the defender initially be facing the opponent. In fact, once initial Legal Guarding Position is obtained, "The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent". (4-23-2 and 4-23-3) There is no mention that offensive player needs to be facing the defender at any time.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The common opinion is that a player is not "guarding" unless facing an opponent.

That being said, maybe there was no count because the officials did not feel they were in the proper distance (6 feet for men's basketball).

Without seeing the play in question or talking to the officials, it is hard to know why there was no count or if there were other reasons.

Peace

Wimmens too! At least Fed.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mick

Anyone noticing some very long seconds between the counts ?

Concur. We were in the Chat Room the other night discussing this issue - one ref (forget which game) kept spreading his arms and the defender was almost touching the offensive player. Seems inconsistent at best.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wimmens too! At least Fed.

Wimmen's college is 3 feet, held ball only.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wimmens too! At least Fed.

It appeared he was talking about NCAA Basketball. I did not care to mention Wimmens basketball.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

But, by mentioning that you didn't mention it, did you actually mention it, or not?