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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 11:25am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Ejection Policies and Are They Upheld?

After reading some posts on this board about state associations either waiving suspensions or upholding suspensions as a result of an ejection from a contest, I'm curious as to the following: 1) Does your state association(s) require the coaches to attend the same rules meetings officials do? 2) If so, does the state association(s) make it clear during the meeting the ramifications of an ejection, and the fact that it cannot be appealed (or otherwise)? 3) Is your state association(s) being consistent with their policy? I'm not out to do a neener-neener kind of thing, but one thing that bugs me as an official is when we do our jobs, and then have our "authority" taken away after the fact because some higher-ups thought we may have been hasty or unclear in our thinking (as if we haven't gotten used to the idiots in the stands who think that every time we run up and down the court!). Talk away folks. I'm going to sit back with my popcorn and see the responses.
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 11:48am
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 02:47pm
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See "Interesting T" thread. Apparently the IHSA backs the officials, even in the case of a "star" player and a questionable call.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 02:57pm
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All ejections are final. If the rules are followed and a judgment is made, the decisions are final. No going back and changing those decisions. And as far as I know based on what was said before by the IHSA, they support their officials 100% in these situations.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 03:47pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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I applaud IHSA for doing so, but there was an official here on the board who ejected a coach in another state and it was being appealed. I believe it was ReffingRev I may be referring to. Can't remember the thread.
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
I applaud IHSA for doing so, but there was an official here on the board who ejected a coach in another state and it was being appealed. I believe it was ReffingRev I may be referring to. Can't remember the thread.
This is not an uncommon occurrence. They have zero tolerance for behavior of coaches and players when it comes to these things. The only time I have ever head the IHSA take back an ejection, was because a baseball umpire ejected a player for simply wearing a jewelry item, which for the record is the same rule in basketball and football. You just remove the player. I have never heard of another case of any kind other than erroneous application of the rules by an official. This might not have been the best call, but it certainly had some merit. At least without any further information.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 04:39pm
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I've not known the NCHSAA to reverse an ejection. Yes, coaches attend a rules clinic. Yes, they are aware of the consequences and the no appeal. Yes, they are consistent.

I think officials are less consistent, disqualifying players and coaches instead of ejecting them, which incldues a 2 game suspension. Fighting is a 4 game suspension.
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 05:07pm
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Hmmm,

In Oregon an ejection cannot be reversed. All ejections in Oregon also include the penalty that the player or coach cannot participate the remainder of that day at any level and there is an additional one game suspension.

Saying that there is a process to lower the penalty that is associated with an ejection.

Example:

In high school baseball last season there were 86 ejections of players and coaches.

Of these ejections 41 were appealed and schools requested that the additional one game penalty be waived.

20 times the OSAA granted the waiver.

Recognize that the OSAA does not make this decision without conferencing with the the local association commissioner who, in turn, talks directly with the official that made the ejection.

Sometimes in baseball (because tradition allows a coach to come on to the field of play to argue even judgment calls) ejections can be questionable even for the well seasoned umpire.

Baseball had FOUR TIMES more ejections than any other sport. Girls softball played 80% as many games as boys baseball and they had seven (7) ejections for the entire season.

Regards,
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 05:13pm
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For the KSHSAA, refs and coaches attend the same rules meeting and ejections/suspensions are covered. I don't have any experience with actual ejections.
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 05:16pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C View Post
Baseball had FOUR TIMES more ejections than any other sport. Girls softball played 80% as many games as boys baseball and they had seven (7) ejections for the entire season.
I remember seeing the stats in Nebraska at the football rules meeting last summer, that the sport with the highest number of ejections was soccer! Even baseball paled in comparison. Must have some Bobby Cox wannabes working in Oregon!
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 05:51pm
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not that it matters, but i saw the play in question (which resulted in the 2nd T on the game) and it was a VERY poor call by one of the officials.

you can say that the coach should not have had him in the game at that point......
you can say that the player should have known better.....
you can say the state association officials should use logic/judgement and not simply follow the "letter of the law" on this rule....

you can blame anyone else you like.....BUT there can be no disputing that the call was VERY poor (even if it was the kids only T of the night). That call cannot be made against ANY player in that situation - scrimmage, non-conference game, regular season game, or state playoff game....
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 06:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
I remember seeing the stats in Nebraska at the football rules meeting last summer, that the sport with the highest number of ejections was soccer! Even baseball paled in comparison. Must have some Bobby Cox wannabes working in Oregon!
No, it is just a difference in how a player being removed from a game is handled. In soccer it is not uncommon for a player to receive a yellow card for "persistent infringement" of the rules. An example: kid fouls the same opponent 3 times during the 1st half on the 3rd foul he is issued his 1st yellow card. In the second half he fouls other players 2 more times and is issued a 2nd yellow card which means he is now out for the remainder of the game. That scenario is reported as an ejection. So in Basketball the kid would have had 5 fouls be on the bench and no report to the state. In soccer the 2nd yellow card is a "soft" red card but a red card none the less and is reported as an ejection. Soccer has no more or no less hot heads as players or coaches but the above described discrepancy puts soccer in a poor light.
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 06:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
you can blame anyone else you like.....BUT there can be no disputing that the call was VERY poor (even if it was the kids only T of the night). That call cannot be made against ANY player in that situation - scrimmage, non-conference game, regular season game, or state playoff game....
That may be true. But we can always look at a call or two and disagree with them. He would not have been ejected from the game if he did not have another T during the game. And when you are winning by 20 points, you should have enough sense to realize that anything he does is subjected to a judgment by the officials to take him out of this game. Also, I did not see a video that suggested what was called. All that I have seen is the word of the media and the coach, which I tend to be careful listening to in these situations. It is possible he was not ejected for hanging on the rim, but slamming the backboard. And when I get the chance, I will ask the officials involved and see if there is more to the story.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
All ejections are final. If the rules are followed and a judgment is made, the decisions are final. No going back and changing those decisions. And as far as I know based on what was said before by the IHSA, they support their officials 100% in these situations.

Peace
Is that your final answer based on the recent IHSA ruling?
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 09, 2009, 10:38pm
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Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
Is that your final answer based on the recent IHSA ruling?
In my 13 years of officiating, I have never seen such a thing overturned by people in the IHSA Office for something that is a judgment call. You must did not read my comments on the other thread.

Peace
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