The dog barks.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Does the barking dog (player), or the whistle for the barking dog (player), cause the ball to become dead?
NFHS 6-7: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 5 An official’s whistle is blown.
ART. 7 A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs.

Originally Posted by LDUB

This is the exact same as any other foul. I don't know why you would think the whistle causes the ball to become dead. This is simple stuff; you even quoted the relevant rule...acting like a dog is a foul which is not a PC or TC foul.

I never thought the whistle caused the ball to become dead in this situation. Note the question mark at the end of my interrogative statement. It wasn't a declarative statement ending in a period. Further, it was a rhetorical question, implying that the answer was too obvious to require a reply. Also, sometimes the whistle does cause the ball to become dead, i.e., when there is an inadvertent whistle.

[26 Year Gap]

Just hope their team mascot is not a hydrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LDUB

It is the exact same rule. For 6 players the foul occurs when it is discovered an official; the ball becomes dead at that point (there are exceptions regarding tries and tries in flight). On the barking dog play the ball becomes dead when the player starts acting like a dog. When the case play says that the official must wave off the basket that means he must give the no score signal as he may be sounding the whistle very near to the time that the try is starting or while the try is in flight. The no score signal makes it clear that the goal didn't count.

In both situations the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.

I can go with this, it makes sense. The case play says the player scored; to me this is clear that the official's whistle came after the score. That said, it still makes sense, because if the officials catch the 6th player before the ball is in the air for a shot, the foul has occurred.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can go with this, it makes sense. The case play says the player scored; to me this is clear that the official's whistle came after the score. That said, it still makes sense, because if the officials catch the 6th player before the ball is in the air for a shot, the foul has occurred.

"Penalize when discovered."

[WIRef]

I think common sense needs to be applied here. The reason the federation changed the rule to make it an unsporting technical foul was because team A is puposely trying to decieve Team B. And in this scenario, that is exactly what is happening. To give Team A the basket (if made) would partially defeat what is trying to be corrected. Granted, Team B still gets the benefit of the "T", but the basket was scored as the result of the unsporting act. If its me, hopefully I recognize this act fast enough to whistle before the shot goes up. Either way, I am taking away the basket. JMO.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by WIRef

I think common sense needs to be applied here. The reason the federation changed the rule to make it an unsporting technical foul was because team A is puposely trying to decieve Team B. And in this scenario, that is exactly what is happening. To give Team A the basket (if made) would partially defeat what is trying to be corrected. Granted, Team B still gets the benefit of the "T", but the basket was scored as the result of the unsporting act. If its me, hopefully I recognize this act fast enough to whistle before the shot goes up. Either way, I am taking away the basket. JMO.

This has nothing to do with common sense, it is straight from the rule book. The ball becomes dead when the player starts acting like a dog. You sounding your whistle has nothing to do with the goal scoring or not as the ball was already dead.

[WIRef]

LDUB - I am in total agreement with you. What I am trying to explain to those who are wanting to count the basket, is that the activity (unless flagrant) after the "bark" is to be ignored. For example, a defensive player holding the offensive player on the so-called "inbounds" would be ignored, due to the dead ball already occuring.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by WIRef

If its me, hopefully I recognize this act fast enough to whistle before the shot goes up. Either way, I am taking away the basket. JMO.

shot - whistle - take away basket if made.

Coach: "shot was off before whistle!"
Me: "yep - I had a late whistle - sorry coach"

[bradfordwilkins]

Where does the line get crossed to unsporting? The dog is an old version but I could see lots of variations... flying around like an airplane... or a choreographed dance.

What if the dance is argued that the players are actually giving hand (and feet/hip) signals to call a play?

Seriously though,

I had a situation once, the ball was handed to A1 below their basket. A2 came down the lane and shouted "No wait, wait I'm going to throw it in..." The ball had already been put at A1's disposal and the 5-count commenced. The B team sagged while A2 came to throw it in... only the inbound pass became a wide open uncontested layup.

Would this fall under a similar ruling?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Where does the line get crossed to unsporting? The dog is an old version but I could see lots of variations... flying around like an airplane... or a choreographed dance.

What if the dance is argued that the players are actually giving hand (and feet/hip) signals to call a play?

Seriously though,

I had a situation once, the ball was handed to A1 below their basket. A2 came down the lane and shouted "No wait, wait I'm going to throw it in..." The ball had already been put at A1's disposal and the 5-count commenced. The B team sagged while A2 came to throw it in... only the inbound pass became a wide open uncontested layup.

Would this fall under a similar ruling?

Would a shot fake be considered unsporting? How about running one direction, then changing directions suddenly?

The difference between your play and these, and the OP, is the OP has NOTHING to do with basketball.

[bbcoach7]

It was pretty pathetic. I showed it to the kids in practice once and being 12-13 years old, they thought it was the greatest thing they'd ever seen on a basketball court. Then later in a game that wasn't even close, they begged and begged to run it, "just one time pleeeeeeeeeeze." I relented.

So they go in after a T.O. to run this play. As the official gives the ball to the inbounder, my player in front of the inbounder drops and starts barking. Nobody even seemed to notice! She had no effect what so ever! I don't know if they just thought she fell down to her hands & knees, or what, but it didn't work.

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

It was pretty pathetic. I showed it to the kids in practice once and being 12-13 years old, they thought it was the greatest thing they'd ever seen on a basketball court. Then later in a game that wasn't even close, they begged and begged to run it, "just one time pleeeeeeeeeeze." I relented.

So they go in after a T.O. to run this play. As the official gives the ball to the inbounder, my player in front of the inbounder drops and starts barking. Nobody even seemed to notice! She had no effect what so ever! I don't know if they just thought she fell down to her hands & knees, or what, but it didn't work.

Or maybe they thought she was having a seizure and thought it was an ample opportunity to make a steal and take off on the break!