Singler Elbow to Hansbrough's Jaw

[CallMeMrRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I can't view YouTube at work. But Singler did receive an Intentional Technical foul last night and NC took the ball out at half court. Was this the play or a different one? I wasn't paying close attention to the TV but wasn't Singler's T after some kind of scrum for a loose ball?

It appears that they clearly called a dead ball intentional T (it's either nothing, intentional or flagrant when the ball is dead) after the held ball was called. That is why any player from UNC could shoot the free throws and that is why the ball would be taken out at half court and not nearest spot. BUT, the ball was given to Duke at half court, which may have been from the A/P POI, but incorrect in this context.

Edit: I see others have mentioned that Duke got the ball at half court. Wasn't familiar with this forum and the multiple pages.

[OHBBREF]

The play by play sheet has this transpiring as a steal by Singler and then a Technical on Singler.
There is not listing other than technical So the only way that I see this would be they called a T non- intentional - and gave the ball to Duke at POI but I still have not seen the play will look tonight.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef

It appears that they clearly called a dead ball intentional T (it's either nothing, intentional or flagrant when the ball is dead) after the held ball was called. That is why any player from UNC could shoot the free throws and that is why the ball would be taken out at half court and not nearest spot. BUT, the ball was given to Duke at half court, which may have been from the A/P POI, but incorrect in this context.

If they'd gone AP/POI, would the ball not have been inbounded on the endline?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In the closed thread Bob said the admin seemed correct.

Never listen to Bob.

I misread the other thread (in terms of who got the ball), I didn't see the play and the player's names mean nothing to me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Never listen to Bob.

I misread the other thread (in terms of who got the ball), I didn't see the play and the player's names mean nothing to me.

What kind of Duke fan are you? Sheesh!

[CallMeMrRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If they'd gone AP/POI, would the ball not have been inbounded on the endline?

Yes, nearest spot. But in this play the intentional T overrides and ball is awarded to offended team at division line. even though we had a held ball, the arrow would not change.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef

Yes, nearest spot. But in this play the intentional T overrides and ball is awarded to offended team at division line. even though we had a held ball, the arrow would not change.

I understand that much. My point is that it makes no sense to give the ball to Duke at the division line. Either give it to Duke on the endline (if you're going POI) or give it to UNC at the division line.

I know which is correct, but there's at least some logic to the other. The way it was don't doesn't make sense.

[deecee]

I dont see how you can call an elbow that makes contact (and you think its intentional) NOT FLAGRANT!!!!

It almost like saying "I know he punched him but it didn't knock him out so we dont need to eject him."

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

(The below ignores the "airborne shooter" possibility since it's not relevant to the play.)

Your terms are very confusing. You can't have a "common foul" during a dead ball.

Contact during a dead ball is IGNORED unless it's intentional or flagrant. Then, it's either an IT or FT foul.

Your "slap on the arm" would most likely be ignored. (I'm talking about the rule; as officials we might address the situation without calling a foul.)

A jump ball is called where Team A gets the AP. About a second after the whistle is blown while A1 is holding the ball, B1 attempts to knock the ball out of A1's hands but slaps A1's arm.

With all due respect, I am sorry but I am not going to ignore this contact.

If this type of action/foul happened during a live ball, it would be a common foul (since the contact was neither intentional or flagrant). But since this occurred during a dead ball (whistle blown for the jump ball), it would be penalized as a intentional technical.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

A jump ball is called where Team A gets the AP. About a second after the whistle is blown while A1 is holding the ball, B1 attempts to knock the ball out of A1's hands but slaps A1's arm.

With all due respect, I am sorry but I am not going to ignore this contact.

If this type of action/foul happened during a live ball, it would be a common foul (since the contact was neither intentional or flagrant). But since this occurred during a dead ball (whistle blown for the jump ball), it would be penalized as a intentional technical.

If it wasn't intentional/flagrant when the ball was live, why would be intentional/flagrant when the ball is dead?

-Josh

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I understand that much. My point is that it makes no sense to give the ball to Duke at the division line. Either give it to Duke on the endline (if you're going POI) or give it to UNC at the division line.

I know which is correct, but there's at least some logic to the other. The way it was don't doesn't make sense.

I agree, I guess the answer could be they flat out kicked it all around. Unless someone close to the situation has any insight, we'll probably never know.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I agree, I guess the answer could be they flat out kicked it all around. Unless someone close to the situation has any insight, we'll probably never know.

I wish Fox and Scully would come back and help us out with this one.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdmara

If it wasn't intentional/flagrant when the ball was live, why would be intentional/flagrant when the ball is dead?

-Josh

Call it an unsportsmanlike foul if you like. Either way, it should be a T.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

If it wasn't intentional/flagrant when the ball was live, why would be intentional/flagrant when the ball is dead?

-Josh

Because it is by definition:

2008-09 NCAA Rulebook

Pg 73 Rule 4 Art 3

g. (Men) Intentional technical foul. An intentional technical foul
involves intentionally contacting an opponent in an excessive nonflagrant
manner when the ball is dead.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

A jump ball is called where Team A gets the AP. About a second after the whistle is blown while A1 is holding the ball, B1 attempts to knock the ball out of A1's hands but slaps A1's arm.

With all due respect, I am sorry but I am not going to ignore this contact.

If this type of action/foul happened during a live ball, it would be a common foul (since the contact was neither intentional or flagrant). But since this occurred during a dead ball (whistle blown for the jump ball), it would be penalized as a intentional technical.

Originally Posted by jdmara

If it wasn't intentional/flagrant when the ball was live, why would be intentional/flagrant when the ball is dead?

-Josh

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Because it is by definition:

2008-09 NCAA Rulebook

Pg 73 Rule 4 Art 3

g. (Men) Intentional technical foul. An intentional technical foul
involves intentionally contacting an opponent in an excessive nonflagrant
manner when the ball is dead.

So if it's not excessive during live ball play, why would be be excessive during a dead ball?

-Josh