Chastised for double T on Coach

[JRutledge]

Sometimes you just have to take the information under advisement and do what you feel is best in the end.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I headed back to administer the T's....My partner should have been enroute to "seatbelt" the coach, but wasn't...I should probably have stayed deaf and let him hit him with the 2nd T.

Why not the first T? You think he gets a pass for calling me an idiot in front of his bench?

I would've let my partner administer the technicals and taken the spot at the division line if the coach I just whacked was at the same end as the FTs (which it would be in the first half). I just try to put as much distance between myself and the coach as possible in these situations.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I headed back to administer the T's....My partner should have been enroute to "seatbelt" the coach, but wasn't...I should probably have stayed deaf and let him hit him with the 2nd T.

Why not the first T? You think he gets a pass for calling me an idiot in front of his bench?

You said, "he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot."

Doesn't sound like he was addressing you. May not have even been talking about you. Since you were administering the FTs, my guess is you didn't make the foul call. If he yells "Idiot!" that's one thing. But a whisper? No. Now, I might turn and ask, "I'm sorry coach. Did you say something?"

I guess you were there but I can't say that I would have called that one. And I'm as quick triggered as anybody.

And I agree with Rich. You should have gone opposite and gotten away from him. We don't tell coaches they have to sit down. They already know. If we resume play and he's still standing, that's a little different. Now one of us is going to tell him to sit as we pass by. But to go to him and tell him he has to sit onoly gives him more opportunity to whine and complain.

JMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You said, "he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot."

Doesn't sound like he was addressing you. May not have even been talking about you. Since you were administering the FTs, my guess is you didn't make the foul call. If he yells "Idiot!" that's one thing. But a whisper? No. Now, I might turn and ask, "I'm sorry coach. Did you say something?"

I guess you were there but I can't say that I would have called that one. And I'm as quick triggered as anybody.

I do not totally disagree, but even if he was not talking to him or anyone directly, that does not give him the right to run his mouth. And if you do not want people to misconstrue your comments, then keep them to yourself. We are not the only people out there that the term, "You cannot quote silence" means for. And I am the kind of person that gets no pleasure out of giving Ts. Half the time I find other ways to handle situation which work very well for me.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

And I agree with Rich. You should have gone opposite and gotten away from him. We don't tell coaches they have to sit down. They already know. If we resume play and he's still standing, that's a little different. Now one of us is going to tell him to sit as we pass by. But to go to him and tell him he has to sit onoly gives him more opportunity to whine and complain.

JMO.

You would be surprised how many coaches do not know this rule or know what it means. I think most coaches know, but if they continue to stand and they have not been informed, then they will claim they did not know what they were doing on the next T. I have no problem telling a coach to sit down, but it should come from the other official, not the calling official.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

I guess as you often suggest, things are different in different areas. Very rarely do we have to tell a coach to sit down here.

Either way, I'm not going to immediately go to him after the T, tell him he has to sit and give him an opportunity to continue to whine. As I said, if we start play and he's still standing, then one of us will run by and seat him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I guess as you often suggest, things are different in different areas. Very rarely do we have to tell a coach to sit down here.

Either way, I'm not going to immediately go to him after the T, tell him he has to sit and give him an opportunity to continue to whine. As I said, if we start play and he's still standing, then one of us will run by and seat him.

You are absolutely correct, things are different. And the kind of games coaches play I am sure are different as well.

But as I said, even if he went across the court, that does not give the coach the right to say what they want. If we have rules that want us to go into huddles and penalize coaches for language we are 50 feet from, then coaches need to watch what they say only 20 feet from the officials towards or around them.

Peace

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I would've let my partner administer the technicals and taken the spot at the division line if the coach I just whacked was at the same end as the FTs (which it would be in the first half). I just try to put as much distance between myself and the coach as possible in these situations.

Good points, RichMSN....

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You said, "he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot."

Doesn't sound like he was addressing you. May not have even been talking about you. Since you were administering the FTs, my guess is you didn't make the foul call. If he yells "Idiot!" that's one thing. But a whisper? No. Now, I might turn and ask, "I'm sorry coach. Did you say something?"

I guess you were there but I can't say that I would have called that one. And I'm as quick triggered as anybody.

And I agree with Rich. You should have gone opposite and gotten away from him. We don't tell coaches they have to sit down. They already know. If we resume play and he's still standing, that's a little different. Now one of us is going to tell him to sit as we pass by. But to go to him and tell him he has to sit onoly gives him more opportunity to whine and complain.

JMO.

We had a disagreement over a correctable error (failure to award merited FT), and he was pulling situations out of his "gazoo." I stayed firm, and we started to shoot the 1l1,,,that's why he snuck up behind and whispered, "Idiot." Maybe I should have ignored it, since it was only a whisper, but if the mercury in my thermometer shoots through the roof, I T...and it did....

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

We had a disagreement over a correctable error (failure to award merited FT), and he was pulling situations out of his "gazoo." I stayed firm, and we started to shoot the 1l1,,,that's why he snuck up behind and whispered, "Idiot." Maybe I should have ignored it, since it was only a whisper, but if the mercury in my thermometer shoots through the roof, I T...and it did....

Me, too.

[zm1283]

I can handle a good deal of chirping from coaches, and I'll let them ask questions all day if they want and I'll answer them if I can. On the other hand, when coaches scream or gesture after a call or no-call, I have less patience. I T'd a coach last week for this. He was losing by 20+ in the second half. He hadn't been too bad in the first half, but was chirpy a couple of times...nothing bad though. Second half he had a couple of outbursts where we would make a call and he would yell quite loudly. My partner warned him after one of these. I went to talk to him after a foul on his team he didn't like and he did the old "Number so and so did this, then so and so did this", trying to complain about plays from 10 minutes ago. I told him that I don't know if those were fouls or not, but his player fouled just now.

His team hits a jump shot and I'm the Trail right in front of his bench. Two opposing players get tied up under the basket, and I can't see anything and my partner lets it go. The coach jumps up and starts yelling something about calling ticky tack fouls as I'm heading down the court to be the new Lead. When I'm at about half court, he screams "Blow your whistle!!". I obliged and served T for one and the other team had a little free throw practice.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

1st T: on a 1/1 FT, he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot." WHACK!.....As I am reporting, and returning to administer T FTs, he asks "What's that for?" I tell him, "I heard the idiot comment, Coach." He immediately jumps back with "You need to learn how to officiate. You're the worst ref I've ever seen!" So I whacked him again, and tossed him. First T's of the year. After faxing in my report, and making a verbal telcal, the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to swallow my whistle and have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told. Again, I agree you need to give him some room and distance, and time, but I felt his comments were too unsportsmanlike, and in front of the kids. How wrong was I?

Is the person at the State Office an ex-COACH?

[RookieDude]

I pre-game this:

If I have to give a Coach a T...I want to administer the foul shots.

I like to be doing something...other than just standing opposite like a "bump on a log".
IMO...it's more uncomfortable to be just standing there, doing nothing, while the fans are possibly berating you for T'ing up there favorite "cheerleader". I mean, not that being stoned, verbally, by the fans is that big of deal...I just like doing something more constructive than standing there after the big "whack"...it's kinda anti-climatic.

Again, administering the foul shots gives me something to do...I don't have to concentrate on the coach anymore. (That's what my partner's can do)

Now...If I have to give a player a T...I want to talk to the coach. Or, I have no problem talking to the coach. If I have given a T to a player...there is nowayinhell a coach is going to give me grief...the kid deserves it and he knows it.

If the coach needs an explanation on that...no problem.

[Adam]

We discussed this the other day, and administering the free throws could put you in the coach's pocket next time down the court (in the 2nd half). We decided in pregame that it would be better to administer the throwin if the situation was heated.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Is the person at the State Office an ex-COACH?

I think he is a very experienced (and respected) umpire....I really do support him, if this is his philosophy....I just wish and hope he tells the coaches that they don't get "carte blanche" after one T....short of the F-Bomb...for the next several minutes...They need to know it's hands off....But he's in charge, and I will do all I can to muzzle myself...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I think he is a very experienced (and respected) umpire....I really do support him, if this is his philosophy....I just wish and hope he tells the coaches that they don't get "carte blanche" after one T....short of the F-Bomb...for the next several minutes...They need to know it's hands off....But he's in charge, and I will do all I can to muzzle myself...

Tell him to sign up for this forum and we'll straighten him out.