Coach Citing the Foul Counts

[Berkut]

I've always wondered why the foul count is so special that it lack of balance is somehow indicative of....something?

If the score count isout of whack, does that mean someone isn't doing a good job of calling made baskets?

If one team has 5 travels, and the other only 2, does that mean something is wrong with the travel calls?

If one team gets more rebounds, is that something that the officials should address?

Why are *fouls* the one stat in the game that coaches/players/fans think *ought to be* balanced in some fashion?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Berkut

I've always wondered why the foul count is so special that it lack of balance is somehow indicative of....something?

If the score count isout of whack, does that mean someone isn't doing a good job of calling made baskets?

If one team has 5 travels, and the other only 2, does that mean something is wrong with the travel calls?

If one team gets more rebounds, is that something that the officials should address?

Why are *fouls* the one stat in the game that coaches/players/fans think *ought to be* balanced in some fashion?

To the first, it may be indicative of unintentionally or intentionally partial officiating. It's often a false positive though because it may also indicate an imbalance of playing skills.
To the second, no. This is indicative of an imbalance of offensive execution.
To the third, depends. If both teams are traveling the same amount then yes. Otherwise no.
To the fourth, depends. Are they attaining those rebounds by gaining an advantage not intended by rule?
To the fifth, fouls are on the scoreboard. Even the most casual fan can look up and notice huge imbalances. Most of those casual fans can't tell if the playing styles are imbalanced. Hence, you're likely to get grilled for the sins of lesser officials.
________
How To Roll A Joint

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Berkut

I've always wondered why the foul count is so special that it lack of balance is somehow indicative of....something?

If the score count is out of whack, does that mean someone isn't doing a good job of calling made baskets?

If one team has 5 travels, and the other only 2, does that mean something is wrong with the travel calls?

If one team gets more rebounds, is that something that the officials should address?

Why are *fouls* the one stat in the game that coaches/players/fans think *ought to be* balanced in some fashion?

Originally Posted by youngump

To the first, it may be indicative of unintentionally or intentionally partial officiating. It's often a false positive though because it may also indicate an imbalance of playing skills.
To the second, no. This is indicative of an imbalance of offensive execution.
To the third, depends. If both teams are traveling the same amount then yes. Otherwise no.
To the fourth, depends. Are they attaining those rebounds by gaining an advantage not intended by rule?
To the fifth, fouls are on the scoreboard. Even the most casual fan can look up and notice huge imbalances. Most of those casual fans can't tell if the playing styles are imbalanced. Hence, you're likely to get grilled for the sins of lesser officials.

Youngump,
I think that you are missing the point. We don't here the comment, "hey, ref, come on, the score is 10 - 2, call it even" or ""wow, we have been called for 10 travel calls and they have only be called for 2 -- let's call it both ways", or "they have outrebounded us 10 - 2 now, come on ref, even it out."

We hear about the foul imbalance because it is on the scoreboard AND/OR in the book AND, for some reason, some coaches feel as though there is some unwritten rule that indicates this one statistic should somehow be close to even during the game without regard to the circumstances within the game.

[muxbule]

Coach "Boy the foul count is 7-2 against us"
Me "Which fouls do you think you didn't deserve"

[Brad]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

some coaches feel as though there is some unwritten rule that indicates this one statistic should somehow be close to even during the game without regard to the circumstances within the game.

I think that many coaches believe that if each team is playing a similar style of defense then the fouls should be "even" ... and they may have a point. However, plenty of times the teams are playing completely differently -- with one team taking a lot of open jump shots versus the other driving to the basket a lot. Obviously, in a game like that there could be great foul count disparity and it wouldn't indicate a problem.

The main thing that I try to keep in mind is that if the foul count is 7-2 or such, don't miss an obvious foul on the team that only has 2 and don't call a cheap one on the team that has 7!

[just another ref]

Had no complaints in the game, but on the subject of foul counts: Last night's game was expected to be a huge blowout. Visitors had beat the team which beat the home team by 70. Home hung around in the first half, and trailed by single digits. Second half, visitors came out strong and won going away by about 30. Foul count for the second half: V 10 H 2

[dan74]

I had a coach point it out the other night. "We have six fouls and they have zero." They were up by four when she said it. I chaulked it up to her attempt to get us to go a bit easier on her team for the next four minutes of the half. Didn't work, though.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Brad

I think that many coaches believe that if each team is playing a similar style of defense then the fouls should be "even" ... and they may have a point. However, plenty of times the teams are playing completely differently -- with one team taking a lot of open jump shots versus the other driving to the basket a lot. Obviously, in a game like that there could be great foul count disparity and it wouldn't indicate a problem.

The main thing that I try to keep in mind is that if the foul count is 7-2 or such, don't miss an obvious foul on the team that only has 2 and don't call a cheap one on the team that has 7!

The overriding problem here is that there are so many different variables involved that it is difficult to cover them all to a coaches satisfaction. My team's very, very rarely fouled -- it was a very conscious decision on my part. There were three things I never wanted my players to do:
1. try to steal the ball from the dribbler/person holding the ball,
2. try to get a rebound when they had not earned the right by boxing out,
3. jump to try to block a shot.

My teams pressed, trapped, and played hard man-to-man defense in the half court. But, we typically made more FTs than our opponents shot. While some teams may have played the same "style" -- i.e. pressing, trapping and playing man-to-man -- they typically ended up with far more fouls because they implemented that "style" in a different manner.

While I see your point about the fouls and what to call or not call, I really don't want the number of fouls a team has to be the determining factor as to whether I call the foul or not.

[bigdogrunnin]

Coach: "The fouls are 9 to 1!!"
Me: "Then tell your kids to stop fouling."

I have used the "Coach, I don't count 'em, I just call 'em." Not my favorite.

[Coltdoggs]

Here is one I have used that I didn't see mentioned....to the coach that is complaining....

Coach, the foul count only tells me that your team is playing more aggressive D.

If they persist...then I'll go to:

Creating a disadvantage when contact is made is a foul, coach.

[Ignats75]

If I get a coach whining about the foul count the one thing I won't do is just acknowledge that I heard him. That just empowers and affirms him in his mind. I either ignore him completely or answer him, usually with the I don't count em, I just call em. If he's a dim enough bulb to think the foul inequity is a reflection on me, then he's too dim to hear the comment as sarcastic.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by Brad

The main thing that I try to keep in mind is that if the foul count is 7-2 or such, don't miss an obvious foul on the team that only has 2 and don't call a cheap one on the team that has 7!

The only reason I want to know the foul count is to know whether we're shooting free throws or not, not to change the way I'm calling the game.