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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 10:50am
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BC violation or not?

I think I kicked this one.

A1 in the BC passes to A2 at the division line. A2 fumbles several times and finally secures control with his feet entirely in the front court. He's picks the ball up off the floor. Ball was entirely in the BC when he picked it up. He doesn't move the ball over the line and passes to A1 still in the BC. I let it go since the ball didn't cross the division line. Pretty sure I kicked it b/c the ball would have had front court status in this case since he wasn't dribbling. Thoughts?
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 10:55am
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Originally Posted by JS 20 View Post
I think I kicked this one.

A1 in the BC passes to A2 at the division line. A2 fumbles several times and finally secures control with his feet entirely in the front court. He's picks the ball up off the floor. Ball was entirely in the BC when he picked it up. He doesn't move the ball over the line and passes to A1 still in the BC. I let it go since the ball didn't cross the division line. Pretty sure I kicked it b/c the ball would have had front court status in this case since he wasn't dribbling. Thoughts?
With A2 standing in the FC, and then picking up the ball off of the floor, the ball obtained FC status, just as you said.

When A1 caught the pass from A2, it became an over and back violation.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS 20 View Post
I think I kicked this one.

A1 in the BC passes to A2 at the division line. A2 fumbles several times and finally secures control with his feet entirely in the front court. He's picks the ball up off the floor. Ball was entirely in the BC when he picked it up. He doesn't move the ball over the line and passes to A1 still in the BC. I let it go since the ball didn't cross the division line. Pretty sure I kicked it b/c the ball would have had front court status in this case since he wasn't dribbling. Thoughts?
When held by a player, the ball derives its location from that of the player. The ball does not have its status according to its location in space ("over" the BC or "past" the division line) nor according to where it last touched the floor. See rule 4-4, ball location.

As Juggling said, if A2 is in the FC and secures the ball, then the ball now has FC status. When A2 passes it to A1 in the BC, that's a violation.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 11:18am
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What if the ball wasn't "secured" in the FC - same as OP, but the fumble was just fumbled back to BC where it was touched by A1?
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 11:27am
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
What if the ball wasn't "secured" in the FC - same as OP, but the fumble was just fumbled back to BC where it was touched by A1?
Team A has team control of the ball in Back Court. A1 passes the ball to A2. A2 has 'Front Court' status and the ball hits him/her and deflects back into 'Back Court', then the next person to touch the ball is a player from Team A. A Back Court violation has occured.
If this play originates from a throw-in, then there is no violation. There is 1 element of 'Back Court' violation missing. That element is Front Court Status.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 12:06pm
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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
If this play originates from a throw-in, then there is no violation. There is 1 element of 'Back Court' violation missing. That element is Front Court Status.
Actually, the important element missing is Team Control since your situation involves a touch/fumble immediately following a throw-in. No team control has been established -- therefore, no violation regardless where ball is being touched/fumbled by the offense.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 12:20pm
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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
Team A has team control of the ball in Back Court. A1 passes the ball to A2. A2 has 'Front Court' status and the ball hits him/her and deflects back into 'Back Court', then the next person to touch the ball is a player from Team A. A Back Court violation has occured.
If this play originates from a throw-in, then there is no violation. There is 1 element of 'Back Court' violation missing. That element is Front Court Status.
Actually, in this case the ball has frontcourt status. The element which is missing is team control in the frontcourt.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 01:37pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
What if the ball wasn't "secured" in the FC - same as OP, but the fumble was just fumbled back to BC where it was touched by A1?
Depends on who touched it last in the FC. If B, no violation. If A, violation.

For example: A has team control in FC. B tips the ball away. A1 fumbles in FC, goes to BC, secures ball (or even touches it). This is a BC violation.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 02:23pm
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Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef View Post
Actually, the important element missing is Team Control since your situation involves a touch/fumble immediately following a throw-in. No team control has been established -- therefore, no violation regardless where ball is being touched/fumbled by the offense.
You are right. I got distracted. Thus I wrote the wrong statement. Thanks for correcting my statement.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 03:16pm
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Now - really confused

After reading the entire thread I am now confused


I thought all three points - two feet and the ball had to establish front court status. If I catch the ball with both feet in the frontcourt and the ball is caught with my hands in the backcourt - is that a violation? If both feet are in the fc and I am dribbling in the bc is that a violation?
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 03:19pm
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Originally Posted by Refsmitty View Post
After reading the entire thread I am now confused


I thought all three points - two feet and the ball had to establish front court status. If I catch the ball with both feet in the frontcourt and the ball is caught with my hands in the backcourt - is that a violation?
No. If you catch it with both feet in the frontcourt and the ball in the backcourt, as long as you don't dribble the ball in the BC you're fine. The ball has FC status in this situation.

Quote:
If both feet are in the fc and I am dribbling in the bc is that a violation?
Not if you're a dribbler and you haven't established FC status yet.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 03:20pm
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Originally Posted by Refsmitty View Post
After reading the entire thread I am now confused


I thought all three points - two feet and the ball had to establish front court status. If I catch the ball with both feet in the frontcourt and the ball is caught with my hands in the backcourt - is that a violation? If both feet are in the fc and I am dribbling in the bc is that a violation?
Air space has nothing to do with FC or BC, thus it won't affect a BC violation.

Three points only applies to a dribbler crossing from BC to FC. If you catch the ball with your feet in the FC, the ball is now in the FC. If you catch the ball with one foot in the air and the other in the FC, the ball now has FC status, with all of the rights (stoping the 10 second count) and restrictions (not able to return to BC) that go with it.
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Old Thu Jan 15, 2009, 03:26pm
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Got it! Thanks
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