Held Ball at the end of the 30 sec shot clock

[rbruno]

Just happened tonight and I feel we messed it up. NHSF rules in Massachusetts.
White is shooting and the 30 sec shot clock is winding down. The ball never hits the rim and we have a held ball just BEFORE the horn sounds the violation.
The arrow is in whites direction. My partner and I confer and agree that the whistle for the held ball just preceeded the horn but with less than a second left. We can't reset the 30 sec clock to less than a second. My partner thinks we have to reset to 30 sec and give the ball to white as it is their arrow.
What should we have done here????

[Nevadaref]

Since the NFHS doesn't provide rules for a shot clock, you will have to defer to what your state says. However, I can tell you that your partner is correct under NCAA rules.

>>	Basketball > NCAA > Rule 2: Officials and Their Duties > Section 11: Duties of Shot-Clock Operator - Article 6c

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by rbruno

What should we have done here????

Held you whistle a tick longer?

[bob jenkins]

Under NCAAW rules, the shot clock does not reset.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Just happened tonight and I feel we messed it up. NHSF rules in Massachusetts.
White is shooting and the 30 sec shot clock is winding down. The ball never hits the rim and we have a held ball just BEFORE the horn sounds the violation.
The arrow is in whites direction. My partner and I confer and agree that the whistle for the held ball just preceeded the horn but with less than a second left. We can't reset the 30 sec clock to less than a second. My partner thinks we have to reset to 30 sec and give the ball to white as it is their arrow.
What should we have done here????

Under CA modified rules for shot clock, you reset on a simultaneous held ball after any shot attempt, whether it hits the rim or not. However, for NCAA - no reset.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Under NCAAW rules, the shot clock does not reset.

Interesting. That appears to be a new rule this year. I see good points for either rule; I just wish it were the same for men and women. There's no real good reason for them to be different.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Under CA modified rules for shot clock, you reset on a simultaneous held ball after any shot attempt, whether it hits the rim or not. However, for NCAA - no reset.

In our area we go with no reset if the offensive team has the arrow going their way. Not sure whose modified rules we're using.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Under CA modified rules for shot clock, you reset on a simultaneous held ball after any shot attempt, whether it hits the rim or not. However, for NCAA - no reset.

What set of CA modified rules are you using? I have never seen this one before. We have always gone with the NCAA.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

What set of CA modified rules are you using? I have never seen this one before. We have always gone with the FED.

There are no fed rules for the shot clock. Massachusetts uses NCAA rules...sort of. The NCAA guidelines for shot clock operators are posted on the MIAA web site, (with a modification for a full 30-second reset on kick balls), but they are not comprehensive.

The MIAA rules that sanction the shot clock say only this: The 30-second shot clock will be utilized at all levels in both boys and girls games.

It does not reference the NCAA rules as the "authority" or basis for the details of implementing the shot clock. There is an effort underway to have a full, formal rule set for the shot clock by next season.

[2SportOff]

MIAA - Adapted from NCAA Basketball 2008 Men's and Women's Rules Interpretations

Art. 6 Stop the Timing Device and Reset it:
c. When a Held Ball Occurs (exceptions: Rules 2-11-7.e, 2-11-7.i and 2-11-7.j)

Rule 2-11-7 is the continuing play without a reset
*HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE*
On the MIAA Site
J. states:
After a simultaneous held ball as described in rule 4-37 occurs during a throw-in and the alternating possesion arrow favors the throw-in team; and

In the NCAA Manual "J" also states: (women) after an unsuccesful try that does not contact the ring or flange and the alternating possession favors the throw-in/shooting team.

So, MIAA leaves out the Women's exception on there web-site, so I take it as they are using the Men's NCAA rule so in this case there would be a reset. If, of course, I am reading things correctly.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by 2SportOff

So, MIAA leaves out the Women's exception on there web-site, so I take it as they are using the Men's NCAA rule so in this case there would be a reset. If, of course, I am reading things correctly.

The shot clock information was placed on the Web site last year...and followed the NCAA protocol exactly, because it was taken directly from the NCAA. No one from the MIAA or the MIAA Basketball Committee wrote those rules, nor were they edited to properly reflect the actual Massachusetts practice regarding resetting the clock in certain situations. They were finally changed two weeks ago...but a comprehensive review is still needed.

The MIAA is aware of this and the basketball committee is supposed to deal with it after this season.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I can tell you that your partner is correct under NCAA rules. Basketball > NCAA > Rule 2: Officials and Their Duties > Section 11: Duties of Shot-Clock Operator - Article 6c

Art 6 Stop the timing device and reset it:
c. when held ball occurs Exceptions Rules 2-11.7.e 2-11.7.i and 2-11.7.j.

Art 7 Stop the timing device and continue time without rest when play begins under the following circumstances:
i. After a simultaneous held ball as described in Rule 4-37 occurs during a throw-in or (women) after an unsuccessful try that does not contact the ring or flange and the alternating possession arrow favors the throw-in team and