My first (high school) ejection

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

And if you notice, I said the same thing you did - the 3 W's: wremind, warn, whack.

Of course we don't throw out T's for the coach who is a step or two outside the box, especially before I've had a chance to remind them about it. And I would be curious as to the context of your partner's comment about "T's slow down the game". Can you help remind a coach to stay in the box instead of giving a T the first time? Sure. A T in that case would slow down the game. Can you help communicate with a coach and address their concerns instead of letting them vent to a point where it is hard to ignore their behavior? Sure. Sometime communication skills can help difuse a situation that would otherwise have to be addressed. But I hope they do not mean "avoid giving a T", even if the situation warrants.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And if you notice, I said the same thing you did - the 3 W's: wremind, warn, whack.

Of course we don't throw out T's for the coach who is a step or two outside the box, especially before I've had a chance to remind them about it. And I would be curious as to the context of your partner's comment about "T's slow down the game". Can you help remind a coach to stay in the box instead of giving a T the first time? Sure. A T in that case would slow down the game. Can you help communicate with a coach and address their concerns instead of letting them vent to a point where it is hard to ignore their behavior? Sure. Sometime communication skills can help difuse a situation that would otherwise have to be addressed. But I hope they do not mean "avoid giving a T", even if the situation warrants.

Well that was sort of what I took out of it...in fact that was about the extent of his pre-game, so there is your context. The two of them are regular partners, so they of course were on the same page..I tried to raise a few situations just to get a feel for what I was dealing with, but I wasn't going to force the guy to do a "thorough" pre-game...game actually went great, maybe we were lucky?

But your note above about reminding a coach to stay in the box instead of a T "the first time". If you are running by and say "coach please mind the box". Would you consider that a warning as if the next time he is a step out you are going to pop him? Or would you give that same "warning" again?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I tried to raise a few situations just to get a feel for what I was dealing with, but I wasn't going to force the guy to do a "thorough" pre-game...game actually went great, maybe we were lucky?

Maybe you were lucky. But you did the right thing in trying to open some sort of pre-game dialog.

Originally Posted by slow whistle

But your note above about reminding a coach to stay in the box instead of a T "the first time". If you are running by and say "coach please mind the box". Would you consider that a warning as if the next time he is a step out you are going to pop him? Or would you give that same "warning" again?

It's usually an escalating process. The first time might be a simple reminder as you go past, "Coach help us out by staying in your box." Or, "Coach, remember what those lines are for?" as you give them a little wink. The next time might be a little louder, so more people are aware, "Coach, we need you to stay in your box." That way, the next time it is obvious as to why the T was given. Of course, depending on the situation, I might skip step 1 or 2.

I've also tossed a coach for simply coaching his team. It happened to be after his 1st T, and he had been reminded about needing to be seated. I almost ran into him as I came up the court, so it was an "easy" T. He wasn't happy about being ejected in a close game, but he didn't have a real complaint because it was obvious how the situation evolved. I'm sure the next time it happens, he will remember to stay seated. I'm sure there are officials that will give multiple reminders, in order to "avoid the T". But I'm not sure how I can expain that to the other coach who is following the rules.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Maybe you were lucky. But you did the right thing in trying to open some sort of pre-game dialog.


It's usually an escalating process. The first time might be a simple reminder as you go past, "Coach help us out by staying in your box." Or, "Coach, remember what those lines are for?" as you give them a little wink. The next time might be a little louder, so more people are aware, "Coach, we need you to stay in your box." That way, the next time it is obvious as to why the T was given. Of course, depending on the situation, I might skip step 1 or 2.

I've also tossed a coach for simply coaching his team. It happened to be after his 1st T, and he had been reminded about needing to be seated. I almost ran into him as I came up the court, so it was an "easy" T. He wasn't happy about being ejected in a close game, but he didn't have a real complaint because it was obvious how the situation evolved. I'm sure the next time it happens, he will remember to stay seated. I'm sure there are officials that will give multiple reminders, in order to "avoid the T". But I'm not sure how I can expain that to the other coach who is following the rules.

Agree with you completely following the first tech, this one is pretty cut and dry. If he is up after he has already gotten the 1st there is really not much wiggle room in my opinion...and you bring up a good point, if there is one coach who is taking liberties that our crew is allowing and the other coach decides to call us on it (which I can't remember the last time this happened), then I will definitely pay closer attention and the first warning to the offending coach will likely be the only....that said the coach who decides to speak up better be minding his own p's & q's as well...but again this whole thing to me falls under game management which I don't believe there is a "right answer" to...but it is also something that I know I can always improve and am always working on...

[deecee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But I'm not sure how I can expain that to the other coach who is following the rules.

I've seen this on the board a couple times already, and I dont know how rampant this is where others officiate, but I am yet to hear from an opposing coach about the other coach "getting away" with anything? So why would you explain to a coach who isn't asking a question?

Most of us joke, but its mostly true, that most coaches don't know the rules. Why would it be any different here?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

I've seen this on the board a couple times already, and I dont know how rampant this is where others officiate, but I am yet to hear from an opposing coach about the other coach "getting away" with anything? So why would you explain to a coach who isn't asking a question?

Most of us joke, but its mostly true, that most coaches don't know the rules. Why would it be any different here?

The point is, if you follow the rules, you have the best defense for the people who count - your partners and your assignor. Perhaps you get "lucky" and the other coach doesn't know the rule. But if they do, you've put yourself in an undefensible position if you allow something that is clearly written as not allowed. Why take the chance?