My first (high school) ejection

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...

[chartrusepengui]

"Techincal fouls slow down games"...

All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

[fiasco]

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

I hope you CC'd the state office, too. Is there a report you have to fill out with them on an ejection?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I hope you CC'd the state office, too. Is there a report you have to fill out with them on an ejection?

We fill out a report and send it to our commissioner, who sends it to the state.

The AD did tell me in his email, though, that they had already decided to pull the coach for the next game, though.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

We fill out a report and send it to our commissioner, who sends it to the state.

The AD did tell me in his email, though, that they had already decided to pull the coach for the next game, though.

Gee, why? If it was your fault....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

I guess we know what your partner was talking to the AD about after the game.

BTW, in your report to the state (assuming you do one for ejects), I'd be sure and mention both the coach meeting you at the locker room and the AD sending you the email. I'd include the email, too.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I guess we know what your partner was talking to the AD about after the game.

BTW, in your report to the state (assuming you do one for ejects), I'd be sure and mention both the coach meeting you at the locker room and the AD sending you the email. I'd include the email, too.

I mentioned both to my commissioner, who handles sending the report to the state. He's told me multiple times that he's got my back. He's a good commish.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

His point I suppose is that T's are more of a production and slow the game down and basically don't call one! Not saying I agree with that style of "game management", if you have something that needs to be addressed you do it....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...

My pet peeve here is that I had an R box us in with this during the coach's meeting. "Coach, as long as you're coaching, we're probably not going to notice you." This guy is a varsity ref (this was a jv game) who does some college; only doing jv because he had to in order to work playoffs.

When he mentioned it to the guys coming to work Varsity, I could tell they were just as annoyed.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Coach, as long as you're coaching, we're probably not going to notice you."

This quote, or something along the lines of "Coach, your box is marked. We're not going to get too worked up over the lines unless you give us reason to," is pretty common around here.

And, quite frankly, I've got no issue with it. If a coach is coaching, and pretty much staying in his box, I'm not concerned with a step or two outside the lines. Don't get on the court when play is there, don't be in front of the scorer's table, and we don't have an issue. That's pretty much accepted in my area as long as the coach isn't on us.

However, if he wanders too much or starts to gripe, he gets a gentle warning to stay in the box and then we pay attention. If he gets whacked and is seat belted, then it's a pretty strict interpretation.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This quote, or something along the lines of "Coach, your box is marked. We're not going to get too worked up over the lines unless you give us reason to," is pretty common around here.

And, quite frankly, I've got no issue with it. If a coach is coaching, and pretty much staying in his box, I'm not concerned with a step or two outside the lines. Don't get on the court when play is there, don't be in front of the scorer's table, and we don't have an issue. That's pretty much accepted in my area as long as the coach isn't on us.

However, if he wanders too much or starts to gripe, he gets a gentle warning to stay in the box and then we pay attention. If he gets whacked and is seat belted, then it's a pretty strict interpretation.

Agree completely.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

And if you notice, I said the same thing you did - the 3 W's: wremind, warn, whack.

Of course we don't throw out T's for the coach who is a step or two outside the box, especially before I've had a chance to remind them about it. And I would be curious as to the context of your partner's comment about "T's slow down the game". Can you help remind a coach to stay in the box instead of giving a T the first time? Sure. A T in that case would slow down the game. Can you help communicate with a coach and address their concerns instead of letting them vent to a point where it is hard to ignore their behavior? Sure. Sometime communication skills can help difuse a situation that would otherwise have to be addressed. But I hope they do not mean "avoid giving a T", even if the situation warrants.