My first (high school) ejection

[fiasco]

What a night Saturday was.

JV girls, two really good teams and a really intense game.

Home coach is gradually starting to get on my partner’s and my nerves. He’s starting to complain about every call and starts bringing up the foul count. A few minutes left in the second quarter I finally go to the bench in response to some more of his whining and let him know “we’ve heard your concerns, coach, and now we’re done talking.”

In the second half, he starts out fine but gets riled up again a few minutes into the game. As I am lead opposite his bench, he yells out to me “You are both horrible.”

Whack!

I tell my partner to inform him that he must now wear a seatbelt for the rest of the game. My partner is a bit of a wet noodle, and he never does, so a few trips down the floor, the coach is up not doing anything, just pacing the sideline. I inform him at the next time out that, by rule, he’s lost his coaching box and he has to have a seat on the bench. He grumbles and gives me a nice stare as I walk away.

This guy is sneaky, though. Throughout the fourth quarter, I can see him as I am trail on his bench side standing in the coaching box. Three separate times, as I turn my head after I or my partner has blown the whistle, I turn my head to observe him fully and he sits down on the bench.

During a timeout, he asks to talk to me and says “I know you’ve got something against me, but don’t take it out on my players,” and walks away.

Riiiiiiiight.

I tell my partner “He’s not sitting on the bench. I’ve given him a warning. If someone’s gonna toss him, it would look a lot better if it was you.” My partner then proceeds to tell me “Well, there’s only a few minutes left and the score is close, so I think I’ll just let him be.”

So I tell him “Fine. If you’re not going to do it, then I will.” Guess I’m on my own tonight.

We get through the fourth quarter and we’re going to overtime. Before the jump ball, I go to the coach and tell him “Look, I don’t want to punish your girls. They’re playing great and they’re right in this thing. But I have already warned you about being off the bench. It’s not fair for the other team to be playing by the rules and me to allow you to blatantly ignore a rule you have been informed about. I don’t want to toss you, but if I observe you off the bench unless it’s to call a timeout or to react to your players, I’m going to have no choice but to give you another T, which will mean automatic ejection.”

His response is (supposedly) extremely contrite and “Yes, I understand, I won’t be a problem.”

Not a minute and a half into overtime, I’m trail next to his bench as his point guard drives the lane. She loses the ball and there is a scrum for the loose ball. My partner calls held ball and the coach goes nuts. He jumps off the bench with his hands waving in the air running towards me.

Whack!

Then I had to wait about a minute for him to take his sweet time getting off the court as he stared me down the whole way.

My partner said after the game he had my back and was all ready to T him up but that I just blew my whistle first.

Right.

[chartrusepengui]

IMO - after the first T and he was supposed to be sitting - I think you gave him too much leeway - even if he was sneaky in standing in the box after the T. If I'd have seen him do that - he would have gotten the second T quickly. He was making a mockery of the rule and the officials and therefore would have been gone.

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

IMO - after the first T and he was supposed to be sitting - I think you gave him too much leeway - even if he was sneaky in standing in the box after the T. If I'd have seen him do that - he would have gotten the second T quickly. He was making a mockery of the rule and the officials and therefore would have been gone.

I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

Originally Posted by slow whistle

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

Game awareness is more than just what's happening on the court.

I guess a dead ball would be a good time to address the sneaking in/out of the box.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

We've been told specifically that we are paid to notice these things. If the coach's behavior is distracting you from the game (and this includes moving in and out of his box), you take care of the behavior; you don't ignore it.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We've been told specifically that we are paid to notice these things. If the coach's behavior is distracting you from the game (and this includes moving in and out of his box), you take care of the behavior; you don't ignore it.

NCAA or HS? Around here they tell us in HS clinics to watch for these things, then when you work with the clinicians during the year they don't "ignore" it, but they are less attentive to coaches who might be a step or two out at various points in the game "coaching their teams"...I would never tell anyone to ignore it, I'm just saying that I usually don't notice it until it is directed at me...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.

If I wasn't sure about it and they were not complaining, no prior incidents: "Coach - the lines on the floor indicate where your coaches box is. If I see you out of that space I'm requried to enforce the rule. I know you haven't been ranting but I'll still have to enforce the rule. Please stay within the box." Next time he feels obligated to take the 2-3 steps out - I'll feel obligated to whack him - without prejudice!

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

IMO - after the first T and he was supposed to be sitting - I think you gave him too much leeway - even if he was sneaky in standing in the box after the T. If I'd have seen him do that - he would have gotten the second T quickly. He was making a mockery of the rule and the officials and therefore would have been gone.

Yeah, I hear you and talked with the varsity refs after the game about it (after my partner left).

I was honestly waiting for my partner to do something about it. I falsely assumed that he, you know, had a spine.

Once I figured out he was not going to back me up, I made the determination that the next time I was in legitimate position to get him, I would. The second T was that opportunity.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

....... I made the determination that the next time I was in legitimate position to get him, I would. The second T was that opportunity.

A word of caution: Be careful about glorifying this call, in your own mind, or especially if describing it to others. Sounds like this coach wrote his own ticket, so nobody should have a problem with what you did. But if you refer to waiting for an "opportunity" to "get him," it could be misconstrued.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A word of caution: Be careful about glorifying this call, in your own mind, or especially if describing it to others. Sounds like this coach wrote his own ticket, so nobody should have a problem with what you did. But if you refer to waiting for an "opportunity" to "get him," it could be misconstrued.

Good point. Thanks.

[OHBBREF]

I have to say I might have gotten him before the end of regulation, however I have to say I admire your restraint in making absolutly sure on the second T that everyone there knew it was going to happen.

I also admire your restraint in not giving you partner a foot in the backside during the game?

I hope that there was some discussion of this after the game, and in the report you filed?
Weak officials like that are why there are always points of emphasis on coaches and player behavior. If everyone would just take care of business when necessary, the coaches would understand what they can do all the time and most of this crap would be eliminated. But because some wet noodles let them get away with this stuff, everyone has to put up with it.

I was shadowing a kid during a training class earlier this year and we told the coach to go off on him. The kid kept looking at me like I needed to give him permission to call the T, (and it was personal and directed right at him), his partner finally got the coach from the other side of the floor.

Asked him what he was waiting for?
Well I have seen coaches do worse and not get a T in college!

Wow!