My first (high school) ejection

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

IMO - after the first T and he was supposed to be sitting - I think you gave him too much leeway - even if he was sneaky in standing in the box after the T. If I'd have seen him do that - he would have gotten the second T quickly. He was making a mockery of the rule and the officials and therefore would have been gone.

I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

Originally Posted by slow whistle

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

Game awareness is more than just what's happening on the court.

I guess a dead ball would be a good time to address the sneaking in/out of the box.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

If he's not complaining or whining then how do you notice that he is out? I know what you are saying, but just to make the point that I go out of my way to not notice what the coaches are doing unless they are making themselves get noticed...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

We've been told specifically that we are paid to notice these things. If the coach's behavior is distracting you from the game (and this includes moving in and out of his box), you take care of the behavior; you don't ignore it.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We've been told specifically that we are paid to notice these things. If the coach's behavior is distracting you from the game (and this includes moving in and out of his box), you take care of the behavior; you don't ignore it.

NCAA or HS? Around here they tell us in HS clinics to watch for these things, then when you work with the clinicians during the year they don't "ignore" it, but they are less attentive to coaches who might be a step or two out at various points in the game "coaching their teams"...I would never tell anyone to ignore it, I'm just saying that I usually don't notice it until it is directed at me...

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I would never tell anyone to ignore it, I'm just saying that I usually don't notice it until it is directed at me...

In transition & whenever there's a whistle, in addition to watching the players on the floor I like to sneak a peek at the clock, table & benches.

Developing good game awareness has really helped me with correcting timing issues before everyone starts screaming, bringing my subs before the horn goes, granting coaches TO requests before they lose it.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

In transition & whenever there's a whistle, in addition to watching the players on the floor I like to sneak a peek at the clock, table & benches.

Developing good game awareness has really helped me with correcting timing issues before everyone starts screaming, bringing my subs before the horn goes, granting coaches TO requests before they lose it.

Agreed I check the table every dead ball..again of course you notice the coaches, what I said was tongue in cheek thus the ....I notice, but don't always "notice"...there are obviously limits, a coach "coaching his team" out in front of the scorer's table is going to get dealt with much more quickly and harshly than a coach who steps out two steps when his team is at the other end of the floor and then is back in when the ball is at his end...the rule is that he is to be inside the box, so unless any of you can honestly say that you enforce this 100% (ie no toes out) to a T (no pun intended), all we are really talking about is degrees which like I said I'm sure vary depending on where you are...

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

In transition & whenever there's a whistle, in addition to watching the players on the floor I like to sneak a peek at the clock, table & benches, and coaches.
Developing good game awareness has really helped me with correcting timing issues before everyone starts screaming, bringing my subs before the horn goes, granting coaches TO requests before they lose it.

GOOD POINT!!! I use that technique also - especially during a dead ball. It's a good management tool to head off potential problems later in the game.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

...the game is on the floor, worrying too much about what the coaches are doing just draws my attention away from the game...

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...

[chartrusepengui]

"Techincal fouls slow down games"...

All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

[fiasco]

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

I hope you CC'd the state office, too. Is there a report you have to fill out with them on an ejection?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

I guess we know what your partner was talking to the AD about after the game.

BTW, in your report to the state (assuming you do one for ejects), I'd be sure and mention both the coach meeting you at the locker room and the AD sending you the email. I'd include the email, too.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

His point I suppose is that T's are more of a production and slow the game down and basically don't call one! Not saying I agree with that style of "game management", if you have something that needs to be addressed you do it....