Continuous Motion

[Adam]

Let me just ask this:

If a player on his way to a layup is fouled prior to planting his final foot, do you give him continuous motion?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me just ask this:

If a player on his way to a layup is fouled prior to planting his final foot, do you give him continuous motion?

on a lay up I do - because that is part of the motion of going to the basket, executing a Jump Stop is coming from one legal position to another and pausing ever so slightly then continuing on.

in that process as I said the ball is rarely being lifted to the basket, it usually comes down and then goes back up. and that is not a part of the habitual shooting motion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

on a lay up I do - because that is part of the motion of going to the basket, executing a Jump Stop is coming from one legal position to another and pausing ever so slightly then continuing on.

in that process as I said the ball is rarely being lifted to the basket, it usually comes down and then goes back up. and that is not a part of the habitual shooting motion.

Why?

I don't think the blue is relevant.

How many layups do you see that start with the ball moving down once it's gathered? Quite a few.

[slow whistle]

Agreed, the ball often comes down during that last step before a layup...and often times there is a pass rather than a shot when a player goes up to attempt a layup, so we can't even say that the intent is clear that someone who goes "in" for a layup is in fact going to attempt a shot....is it the pause of the jump stop that throws people off? I'll admit it did look a little goofy due to the time lapse, but I can't find anything rules/case wise that tells me that he can't complete that motion...

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I'll admit it did look a little goofy due to the time lapse, ...

that is my point - not a continuous motion, means on the floor.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

that is my point - not a continuous motion, means on the floor.

First, he said time lapse, nothing to do with continuity of motion.

Second, do you really call this "on the floor" during the game?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How many layups do you see that start with the ball moving down once it's gathered? Quite a few.

but the motion is continual from the gather through the lay up of the ball...

the motion of a jump stop, is a stop, which in my opinion is a stop of motion, therefore, I call it on the floor.
the explaination has always worked for me when I had to give it.
Coach he stopped!

Player dribbling down the left side of lane, jumpstops and gets hit and knocked to the floor?

if you call it going up, how did you make that determination?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

but the motion is continual from the gather through the lay up of the ball...

the motion of a jump stop, is a stop, which in my opinion is a stop of motion, therefore, I call it on the floor.
the explaination has always worked for me when I had to give it.
Coach he stopped!

Player dribbling down the left side of lane, jumpstops and gets hit and knocked to the floor?

if you call it going up, how did you make that determination?

Tell me you don't say these words.

Just because the feet come to a stop doesn't mean the hands do. I see no rules basis for your distinction.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Tell me you don't say these words.

I never say "these words" and I try very hard not to say "on the floor".

I go with "No Shot"!

I see the point you are trying to make, I guess we are just philosophically opposed here.
Of course it does help to make this call when you see the whole play, and call it in the context of the game you have going on.
Because I know that I have in my lifetime probably give an "and one" (never say those words) on this play.

So the lesson is to see the whole play and then make the call!

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I never say "these words" and I try very hard not to say "on the floor".

I go with "No Shot"!

I see the point you are trying to make, I guess we are just philosophically opposed here.
Of course it does help to make this call when you see the whole play, and call it in the context of the game you have going on.
Because I know that I have in my lifetime probably give an "and one" (never say those words) on this play.

So the lesson is to see the whole play and then make the call!

And I'm sure there have been times where I have called this "no shot" also...agreed it is often an "instinct" call, but after it happened I promised that I would try to get a rules/case based interpretation to defend my gut instinct...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I never say "these words" and I try very hard not to say "on the floor".

I go with "No Shot"!

I see the point you are trying to make, I guess we are just philosophically opposed here.
Of course it does help to make this call when you see the whole play, and call it in the context of the game you have going on.
Because I know that I have in my lifetime probably give an "and one" (never say those words) on this play.

So the lesson is to see the whole play and then make the call!

Good. You scared me referencing it twice. "On the floor" means nothing, but I'm sure you know that.

We're in basic agreement here, I think.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

but the motion is continual from the gather through the lay up of the ball...

the motion of a jump stop, is a stop, which in my opinion is a stop of motion, therefore, I call it on the floor.
the explaination has always worked for me when I had to give it.
Coach he stopped!

Player dribbling down the left side of lane, jumpstops and gets hit and knocked to the floor?

if you call it going up, how did you make that determination?

Just b/c the feet stop, does this mean it has to be a "stop" from a CM standpoint? The rest of the body is probably moving as much as someone going for a layup as the ball comes up for the shot, just a brief change of direction of the ball as it comes down and then up (again same as a layup attempt)

As for your case of the jumpstopper getting floored, that is a very interesting question...why do we differentiate when a kid goes in for a layup, gets hit, and then passes the ball after the whistle vs. if he shoots it after the whistle? The action after the whistle has to at least partly determine what call you are going with doesn't it? In your case I would say no ft's b/c his motion, while he may have started to shoot with the jumpstop, I could not tell if that was something he was going to finish...however (as my alter ego takes over), if a kid goes in to attempt a layup and gets floored before he is able to complete any motion (pass or shot), we are probably all going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was going to shoot....so I see where I might have a conflict there...I still go back to this move being part of this kid's "habitual" movement....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

but the motion is continual from the gather through the lay up of the ball...

the motion of a jump stop, is a stop, which in my opinion is a stop of motion, therefore, I call it on the floor.
the explaination has always worked for me when I had to give it.
Coach he stopped!

Player dribbling down the left side of lane, jumpstops and gets hit and knocked to the floor?

if you call it going up, how did you make that determination?

Is it really? Did the player actually stop? I'm counting the basket if the action of the A1 was such that A1 continued, without hesitation, to the shot.

If they get knocked to the floor and I think they were trying to shoot it....2 shots.