End of Game Intentional Delay

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You would think during an association meeting, someone would be able to open their case book and pull up the case play.

Case play says you are to hold the whistle unless the delay tactic actually interferes with an attempt to inbound the ball. In that case, you go straight to the T.

My books are at home, so I can't quote the case play number, but I'm sure someone will be along to help.

Folks, I'm well aware of the case play in the book. However, as someone has cited, that deals with 5 seconds or less. My OP had more than 5 seconds which I can't find a case play for.

So if the team who is behind and needs the clock to stop grabs the ball or , bats the ball away before its picked up by the thrower, what do you have? That's the question at hand. Do you reward the defense with a delay warning which stops the clock which is what they want?

Also, again, if you heard the coach instruct his players along the lines of "if we score, bat the ball away " could you/would you call a T if that actually then happened using the "upsporting conduct" logic?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Spence

1. Folks, I'm well aware of the case play in the book. However, as someone has cited, that deals with 5 seconds or less. My OP had more than 5 seconds which I can't find a case play for.

2. So if the team who is behind and needs the clock to stop grabs the ball or , bats the ball away before its picked up by the thrower, what do you have? That's the question at hand. Do you reward the defense with a delay warning which stops the clock which is what they want?

3. Also, again, if you heard the coach instruct his players along the lines of "if we score, bat the ball away " could you/would you call a T if that actually then happened using the "upsporting conduct" logic?

1. I see your point, but the case play works with 8 seconds as well, IMO. Let the ball roll/bounce away while the clock runs. The spirit and intent behind the case play also works when there is 8 seconds remaining.

2. No, either let it go, or if the new offense is trying to inbound the ball, go straight to the T.

3. No. Not based on the coach's words, anyway. Base it on the case play.

The spirit and intent of the D.O.G. rule is not to allow the defense to benefit. the key part of the case play is not the time remaining, although it is definitely relevant. The key part is "if its only purpose is to stop the clock."

[lpneck]

If there are 8 seconds remaining, I'm calling a delay. You have no rules justification to do anything else. Coach A also deserves consideration for Coach of the Year for knowing the rules well enough to benefit his team.

If there are 5 seconds or less remaining. I have nothing. A1 could drop kick the ball into the upper deck and I am not blowing my whistle. Game over, drive home safely.

[cmathews]

You know, it may take me a couple seconds to make sure that A's head coach doesn't need a time out, and oh look at that when I look back to the endline there are less than 5 seconds left.........In either case I am not going to stop the game and let them benefit from an illegal tactic...

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by cmathews

You know, it may take me a couple seconds to make sure that A's head coach doesn't need a time out, and oh look at that when I look back to the endline there are less than 5 seconds left.........In either case I am not going to stop the game and let them benefit from an illegal tactic...

What makes this tactic any more illegal than a team fouling when down by 2 and 20 seconds left?

[Spence]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What makes this tactic any more illegal than a team fouling when down by 2 and 20 seconds left?

That was brought up as well.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What makes this tactic any more illegal than a team fouling when down by 2 and 20 seconds left?

I don't believe that there is a rule that addresses this like there is for the attempt to delay with only seconds on the clock. According to the RULES you ignore the attempted delay unless it interferes with the team attempting thier throw -in,(in thier face preventing the throw-in, knocking the ballout of thier hands,or preventing them from getting the ball at all). You will not be popular (what's the change right) for the call but they will think about it next time. There is also the possibility for a intentional foul in your sit. which must be watched for and called, much to the shagrin of coaches everywhere. There are legal (bad word choice) ways to stop the clock and illegal ways thanks to the rules.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

I don't believe that there is a rule that addresses this like there is for the attempt to delay with only seconds on the clock. According to the RULES you ignore the attempted delay unless it interferes with the team attempting thier throw -in,(in thier face preventing the throw-in, knocking the ballout of thier hands,or preventing them from getting the ball at all). .

The rule says to ignore if there are 5 seconds or less. What about if there are 20 and the defensive player crosses the boundary line? Delay of game per the rulebook?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What makes this tactic any more illegal than a team fouling when down by 2 and 20 seconds left?

The rule book spefically considers this tactic to be wrong. It also specifically states that fouling is an accepted and appropriate strategy.

Note also that if the defense fouled in the OP rather than hitting the ball away; it would most likely be an intentional foul.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The rule book spefically considers this tactic to be wrong. It also specifically states that fouling is an accepted and appropriate strategy.

Note also that if the defense fouled in the OP rather than hitting the ball away; it would most likely be an intentional foul.

Wait to foul until the ball is at the throwers disposal.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What makes this tactic any more illegal than a team fouling when down by 2 and 20 seconds left?

first as someone stated above, the foul is an accepted practice....secondly, the foul carries a penalty whether it be free throws or getting closer to the bonus to make it a free throw contest on succeeding fouls...without a T there is no penalty for an act to clearly circumvent the rules, or use them to gain an advantage. I just won't start my count until the ball is at the disposal of the team entitled to the throw in, and if they want to stand there and hold the ball and watch the clock run out it is up to them. Should the coach start yelling delay delay etc., it will be similar to 3 seconds, and every time they disrupt my count I will have to start it over

[Spence]

Originally Posted by lpneck

If there are 8 seconds remaining, I'm calling a delay. You have no rules justification to do anything else. Coach A also deserves consideration for Coach of the Year for knowing the rules well enough to benefit his team.

.

That was the argument given by one of the vets in the group. The rulebook says to call a delay. Is there another rule/interp that we could use to override the delay rule?

[Texas Aggie]

that deals with 5 seconds or less

Not really. It deals with several seconds left rather than, say, in the middle of the quarter or early in the game. Keep in mind the intent of the ruling.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpneck

If there are 8 seconds remaining, I'm calling a delay. You have no rules justification to do anything else. Coach A also deserves consideration for Coach of the Year for knowing the rules well enough to benefit his team.

The case play is clear that this rule is not to be used to the advantage of the defense in a close game. Whether there's 5 or 8 seconds left, the advantage is the same. A smart offensive player can use up 8 seconds easily; count to 4 then throw a long high pass towards your basket.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The case play is clear that this rule is not to be used to the advantage of the defense in a close game. Whether there's 5 or 8 seconds left, the advantage is the same. A smart offensive player can use up 8 seconds easily; count to 4 then throw a long high pass towards your basket.

So the coach says to you "but the rule clearly says with 5 seconds or less" and we had 8 (or 20). Where's my delay warning?"