Angry Coach at Halftime

[TussAgee11]

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

It's about to get even better

I predict 13 pgs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Great thread.

I'm trying to relate it to my sport, baseball - but its near impossible since baseball has no intermission.

Anyways, thought I would throw a thought out there.

What about ignoring it during the half, and then getting the guy the first time he says ANYTHING to you in the 2nd half. If you can slip in a "That's enough" beforehand, great, if not, don't sweat it.

I am envisioning coming back into a gym, and nobody there (including those that are on your side, admins and scorekeepers) knowing what happened in the locker room. Our job is to a) do our job and b) keep a good perception in doing that job.

You're going to catch ALOT of **** for directly dealing with this locker room stuff during that game, and maybe even from assignors in the future.

I don't like baiting, but sometimes in baseball anyways, my mind is made up about a guy, and I want to get rid of him or at least tell him "that's enough," but I can't do it at that time because of other circumstances (in this case, it could be the locker room).

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.

Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Wow, I disagree with this post on every possible level.
The poster shies away from dealing with the unsporting conduct because he is afraid of taking some heat for do so, but then actually advocates trying to bait and manipulate the coach into a technical foul later in the game in order to make up for it.
Why not take the high road and conduct yourself in an upstanding manner and take care of business with the coach. You'll certainly get less grief for trying to deal with this the right way than by attempting some underhanded method.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gentlemen:

I have read a number of posts in this thread since my first post. Many of these posts quoted various NFHS Basketball Rules that could possibly be applied to this situation. BUT you do not want to go where many people want to go. DO NOT charge the HC with a TF!

Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.

No one will ever accuse me of being a namby pamby when it comes to sportsmanlike behavior, BUT, I am not going to charge the HC with a TF in this situation. Baseball and softball umpires have a saying: Don't go looking for boogers. Charging the HC with a TF in this situation is a Jimmy Durante's nose full of boogers.

AND, there are many many ways that the officials can take care of this HC once the second half begins. And I am sure that there are many many officials who are very very diligent in applying the appropriate Secions of Rule 10 that apply to misconduct of the HC while the game is actually being played.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, I have yet to be told why the rules and case plays don't apply.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, I have yet to be told why the rules and case plays don't apply.

They don't apply for those who don't want them to apply. They do apply for those who desire them to. It's that simple.

Considering the NFHS's stance on sporting behavior and inappropriate language, I'm very comfortable penalizing this coach. That kind of stuff is unacceptable at the HS level. I just can't see any assignor or state governing body having a problem with an official taking action here.

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Considering the NFHS's stance on sporting behavior and inappropriate language, I'm very comfortable penalizing this coach. That kind of stuff is unacceptable at the HS level. I just can't see any assignor or state governing body having a problem with an official taking action here.

This was the gut-level response I had when this episode originally occurred and I still feel this way. The coach displayed horrible sportsmanship to his kids and we let him get away with it! That's what still gnaws at me.

I appreciate all the responses and recommended courses-of-action, I intellectually understand them all, I'm a manage/call-the-game-by-all-the-rules kinda guy though I've certainly never been accused of being an OOO. BUT...HS sports are (or at least are supposed to be) an extension of the classroom/school activities. As a HS teacher (I wasn't at the time of the incident, BTW) it just bothers me that I and my partners didn't immediately deal with this coach's unacceptable behavior. I have three daughters who all played HS sports and I would not have wanted them to witness or be subjected to this coach's behavior.

[BillyMac]

I'm on the fence on this issue. I might, or might not, give a technical foul here, but at the minimum, I'm letting the site director, athletic director, and possibly the principal, know what transpired in that locker room, probably through my assigner. In any case, the coach is not going to get away with this.

Many years ago, as I was running past the home team's bench, I heard the head coach yell to his point guard, "Get your f***ing head in the game", after she had the ball stolen, leading to an easy score. It was intended for only her to hear, but I heard it, as did a few girls on the bench. On the way out that night, I reported this to the athletic director, telling him that I thought it was inappropriate, particularly on the high school level, especially with female players. He told me that he appreciated the information, and that he would take care of the matter. I guess he did, because I've never heard that coach use a curse word since that night.

A few years ago, one of our best officials heard a coach, outside his dressing room, give a curse-laced halftime speech to fire up his players. None of the curses were directed at the officials. The next day, the official called the high school principal to report the coach's halftime comments to his players. Although the principal thanked the official for the information, we later heard through the grapevine that the athletic department, from the athletic director down, was not pleased that our official went "over their heads". There was also some discussion within our local board whether the official had done the right thing in this case. Many thought that he probably should have made his complaints known through our assigner.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wow, I disagree with this post on every possible level.
The poster shies away from dealing with the unsporting conduct because he is afraid of taking some heat for do so, but then actually advocates trying to bait and manipulate the coach into a technical foul later in the game in order to make up for it.
Why not take the high road and conduct yourself in an upstanding manner and take care of business with the coach. You'll certainly get less grief for trying to deal with this the right way than by attempting some underhanded method.

Listen, maybe in basketball you guys want to handle it. My comments were preceeded by my own baseball background, although I do officiate basketball as well.

As a previous poster said, don't go looking for boogers, they will only lead to bad situations that the best of game management can not fix.

My philosophy was punishing the coach for his actions in a different way, not really baiting him in to do something else. Get him for anything you want in the first 2 mins of the 3Q, but I can't imagine how shooting 2 before the half even starts ends up well.

Its not being a namby pamby, it's dealing with it in a different way. I'll leave the thread on the note, since as I said, my experience on the sport level is baseball, not as much basketball, but thought I would throw in general game management philosophy.

[refnrev]

I'm going with Rut and MTD on this one. Rut beat me to the special report and I am not starting a half with a T for something an idiot coach says in the locker room to his players. If he says to our face, WHACK! But his report card better say that "coach played very nicely with others in the second half."

[Daryl H. Long]

To all who advocate a T:

Seeing and Hearing is tantamount. You must be 100% of what infraction has happened and Who committed the infraction.

IF you penalize the foul must be assessed to a specific individual. That means I must have both seen AND heard the infraction. Seeing tells me exactly who must be penalized. Hearing only tells me which rule infraction to penalize (10-4-1) as in this case during halftime everyone is bench personnel (4-34-2).

No seeing = guessing. The best officials DO NOT GUESS.

Note: in all citations so far to advocate T while in locker room areas of the school the referee has both seen and heard the infraction (ie. electronic equipment, T in hallway)

Only guessers assess a T without visually seeing who committed the infraction.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Easy, buddy. Don't shoot the messenger.

My post was obviously not directed at you, since I don't remember you calling anyone any names in this thread.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

To all who advocate a T:

Seeing and Hearing is tantamount. You must be 100% of what infraction has happened and Who committed the infraction.

IF you penalize the foul must be assessed to a specific individual. That means I must have both seen AND heard the infraction. Seeing tells me exactly who must be penalized. Hearing only tells me which rule infraction to penalize (10-4-1) as in this case during halftime everyone is bench personnel (4-34-2).

No seeing = guessing. The best officials DO NOT GUESS.

Note: in all citations so far to advocate T while in locker room areas of the school the referee has both seen and heard the infraction (ie. electronic equipment, T in hallway)

Only guessers assess a T without visually seeing who committed the infraction.

This is the only argument I can appreciate for definitively not calling the T. However, we all know there are some coaches with distinctive enough voices that make hearing just as good as seeing.

Preacher, have you ever called a T on a coach for a comment he made to you while he was standing directly behind you?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So first chance you do get, maybe an throw-in in front of his bench, give him a "Coach, I didn't make out all of that half-time speech? Care to repeat?" If he comes back with a yes, you got him. Comes back with a no, give him a "Guess I'll have to yell through the showers at you after the game." Say something like that, and I can't imagine any coach keeping his mouth shut. Bam, got him.

And its out in the open, we got a T, 2,000 people saw him lose it, and only 2 people know what was really said, you and him.Not baiting, just slight manipulation to get what you want without the negative consequences of leaving him in the locker room at half. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

My philosophy was punishing the coach for his actions in a different way, not really baiting him in to do something else. Get him for anything you want in the first 2 mins of the 3Q, but I can't imagine how shooting 2 before the half even starts ends up well.

I'm trying to see how this is not baiting. Especially considering this.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

Seeing and Hearing is tantamount. You must be 100% of what infraction has happened and Who committed the infraction.

IF you penalize the foul must be assessed to a specific individual. That means I must have both seen AND heard the infraction. Seeing tells me exactly who must be penalized. Hearing only tells me which rule infraction to penalize (10-4-1) as in this case during halftime everyone is bench personnel (4-34-2).

No seeing = guessing. The best officials DO NOT GUESS.


Only guessers assess a T without visually seeing who committed the infraction.

If there is uncertainty, you have a point which is certainly valid. But in the OP, which I think would be the rule rather than the exception, identifying the guilty party does not seem to be a problem.