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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 04:05am
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Fist

How many here have ever called a fist violation? I never have and have never seen the call. Tonight, BV, a couple of times on a throw-in I saw a player hold out his fist and let the ball gently strike it, to then be picked up by the thrower after stepping in bounds. I really don't think this is the situation they had in mind when they wrote this rule anyway, plus the score was about 30-12 at the time, so I made no call. I did tell the coach at the half that a fist was the same as a kick, so he might want to tell the kid to stop it. He thanked me and assured me that he would.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 07:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
a couple of times on a throw-in I saw a player hold out his fist and let the ball gently strike it, to then be picked up by the thrower after stepping in bounds.
I agree with you -- this is not the situation where a violation should be called. In your shoes, I would not have called it either. I have called it exactly one time, and it was because the player took a full swing at the ball, trying to hit it out of a scrum.

I don't even see it anymore, to be honest. It just doesn't happen with the experienced players that I've encountered.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 08:15am
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Would it be okay if the player tapped the ball back to his teammate with his foot?
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 08:16am
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I had one two years ago. Local BV team in a Christmas tournament. The team's best player punched a loose ball upcourt to a team mate for a fast break. I hit my whistle immediately and sent it the other way. Crowd started grumbling. I walked to the coach and explained the call. He said no one had ever called them for it, as this player did it all the time (he thanked me!).

Side note...star player went on to a D1 scholarship. I'm guessing he doesn't punch the ball upcourt any more.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 08:20am
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I have seen it called 3 different times.
1) On a jump ball the girl punched the ball with her fist.
2) On a rebound attempt, the defensive player could not get both of his hands on the ball so he punched the ball with his fist towards center court.
3) Densive player trying to deny the pass, reached around the player he was guarding and punched the incoming pass.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I did tell the coach at the half that a fist was the same as a kick, so he might want to tell the kid to stop it.
"I guess the foot's on the other hand now!" --Ted Striker
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 09:17am
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What signal do you use when calling a fist?
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 09:19am
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Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
What signal do you use when calling a fist?
The violation signal.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 10:18am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Would it be okay if the player tapped the ball back to his teammate with his foot?
While I understand the question (a violation is a violation, right?), I believe there was a wise person that once said it is a good idea to understand the reason behind the rules to have a better idea on how to call the game. In the case of the kick, the committee has stated in the past that basketball is a game to be played with the hands. Therefore, any intentional contact with the leg or foot is a violation. (After all, this isn't soccer.) In the case of the fist, it is a safety issue, where the concern is a closed fist could cause more injuries when players are in close proximity. In this particular play, safety of the players is not an issue, so even though it's a violation, it is something I probably won't see. (Did you notice the ?)
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 10:59am
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You better watch out. icallfouls will be along shortly to chastise you for your lack of proper rules enforcement.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:09am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
"I guess the foot's on the other hand now!" --Ted Striker
"Don't call me Shirley." --Dr. Rumack (Leslie Nielsen)
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:10am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You better watch out. icallfouls will be along shortly to chastise you for your lack of proper rules enforcement.
I know. And I think it's good that he has that attitude - it's better to know the rules and call them "strictly" rather than the other extreme of simply guessing and making things up as you go along. But, as you and I know, there is an art to officiating that allows for some things to occur that are not written in the rules; when to call some things and when to pass.

My "art of officiating" is probably closer to Chuck Jones than Picasso, but I'm still learning.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:31am
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy View Post
My "art of officiating" is probably closer to Chuck Jones than Picasso, but I'm still learning.
Chuck was great in his way. Interesting juxtaposition.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:35am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Chuck was great in his way. Interesting juxtaposition.
I wondered if anyone would catch that.

My officiating has been described as "cartoon-like"...
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:58am
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Chuck was great in his way.
Yeah, but too bad that ol' Elics is gone.
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