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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 04:28pm
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Another backcouirt question

Player A1 has ball in front court , player B1 slaps ball away , ensuing scrum leaves ball in player B1's posession (still in A's frontcourt ) , just after B1 has posession A2 deflects ball away from B1 to team A's backcourt. Player A3 retrieves ball from the backcourt and is called for backcourt violation.

A fellow parent told me of this and had " commented " to the official about posession and the official commented back that the ball was still in A's posession. I have talked with a fellow official and we have went back and forth,,,,,,,, unfortunately I think the answer is right in front of me and I'm not seeing it.

Thanks

ps At least I'm educating my fellow parents ........... they aren't commenting 3 SECONDS, 3 SECONDS.

Tip
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 04:31pm
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I suppose the ref thought the ball had never gone to B and because A was the last to touch it in the frontcourt it was backcourt once A got the ball. If B did have possession which you write then no it should not have been backcourt.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 04:31pm
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Who was the last to touch in the front court?

Who was the first to touch in the back court?

Did that team have team control when it was touched in the back court?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 04:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTip View Post
Player A1 has ball in front court , player B1 slaps ball away , ensuing scrum leaves ball in player B1's posession (still in A's frontcourt ) , just after B1 has posession A2 deflects ball away from B1 to team A's backcourt. Player A3 retrieves ball from the backcourt and is called for backcourt violation.

A fellow parent told me of this and had " commented " to the official about posession and the official commented back that the ball was still in A's posession. I have talked with a fellow official and we have went back and forth,,,,,,,, unfortunately I think the answer is right in front of me and I'm not seeing it.

Thanks

ps At least I'm educating my fellow parents ........... they aren't commenting 3 SECONDS, 3 SECONDS.

Tip
There it is...

Did A have team control?

No - no violation.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 05:15pm
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Smile

Team A had control initially ( start of thread ) , prior to all of the deflections. The last deflection by A2 that ended up in the backcourt was a deflection (slapped the ball away from B1).

The official who called the violation also works college games ..... didn't know if there is a difference in the ruling.


Thanks for the help


Tip
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 05:50pm
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Whoa, RT. You first write that B retained possession. As noted above by others, if B gets possession, there's no b/c violation for A. But now if you're just saying it was pinball time, and only deflections all around, we have a different ballgame.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 05:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
Whoa, RT. You first write that B retained possession. As noted above by others, if B gets possession, there's no b/c violation for A. But now if you're just saying it was pinball time, and only deflections all around, we have a different ballgame.
Right. Did B1 ever have player control? Holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds? Holding is probably the most likely, and the definition depends on the ref. But if the ball came to rest in the hand/s, in such a way that you'd call traveling if he shuffled his feet, that's player control, and thus B's team control.

Reftip, the word you used was possession. What did you mean by that?
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 10:11pm
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Just got back from a game and talked with the parent again . He said that player B retreived the ball and held the ball for about second or so then player A2 "slapped " it away. The ball then went from front court of A to back court .


Tip
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 11:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTip View Post
Just got back from a game and talked with the parent again . He said that player B retreived the ball and held the ball for about second or so then player A2 "slapped " it away. The ball then went from front court of A to back court .


Tip
In that case, see post #2, #3, and #4.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 03:01am
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BTW the NCAA rule on backcourt works the same as the NFHS rule.

There are wording and structure differences, but all plays have the same result.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 11:11am
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Looks to me like the parent thought B had gained possession, and the official disagreed.

More accurately, it looks like the official thought B had not gained possession, and the parent disagreed.

It happens.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 01:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Looks to me like the parent thought B had gained possession...
Impossible. This would mean a parent had some rules knowledge.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 01:11pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Impossible. This would mean a parent had some rules knowledge.
Ah, but this one has been talking to a referee. Enough knowledge to make them dangerous, to be sure.

Also, did this official respond during the game? That's a no-no. Did he respond to the parent during a dead ball? Also a no-no.
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 01:53pm
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He responded as he was running down the court.

Thanks all for the responses .............. I'll encourage the parent to keep it down. Last year I was able to convince two parents to get licensed and they are now in their first year.


Tip
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Old Fri Dec 19, 2008, 02:56pm
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Originally Posted by RefTip View Post
He responded as he was running down the court.
A ref who does college games is responding to the crowd as he runs down the court?
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