End of game situation offensive foul scenario with a made bucket at the buzzer

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree with rwest on this.

Me, too.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Any contact after the fact is ignored.

How about intentional, or flagrant contact?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How about intentional, or flagrant contact?

Good call. I meant common foul. Besides, I was wrong anyway!!!

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Here's an online rule book:

Middle Tennessee Basketball Officials Association

Seems as though some of the folks need to visit their online rules resource a little more often.

Take a look at some of the 'you make the call' poll results posted on their site...Not so sure I would want this info publicly available

This question was posted 1/15/2008

Results for "A1 has the ball in the backcourt and throws a pass into the front court. The ball strikes the official who is in bounds in the front court and the ball rolls into the backcourt and is first touched by A1."
Choice Votes %
Back court violation 318 50.1%
No violation - count continues 228 35.9%
No violation - count restarts 69 10.8%
Traveling 19 2.9%
Total 634 100%



Same question posted 9/15/2004

Results for "Team A is in backcourt - passes ball - hits Referee in frontcourt inbounds - goes directly into backcourt - A1 catches the ball."
Created 21:17 09/15/2004
Choice Votes %
Backcourt Violation 75 50.3%
OK. No Break in Ten Second Count. 47 31.5%
OK. Ten Second Count Starts Over. 19 12.7%
OK. But A1 Cannot Dribble. 8 5.3%
Total 149 100%


But at least they are consistent with 50% getting correct answer in both instances

more 'interesting' results can be found at this link...
Middle Tennessee Basketball Officials Association

[eyezen]

Since the OP asked

NCAA - count the bucket, Team A wins

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Here's an online rule book:Middle Tennessee Basketball Officials Association

I'm still looking for alternative free online rulebook to the one above. Or, what's the cheapest way to get an online rulebook and casebook if I end up having to pay for it? NFHS? How much? EOfficials.com?

[Nevadaref]

NFHS
A. PC foul. Doesn't matter that the ball is dead. The foul is still penalized and as part of that penalty the basket does not count. Get ready for OT.

B. If the ball has become dead prior to the contact because the try ended, then the foul is ignored unless the contact is intentional or flagrant. If the ball was still live because the try was not yet finished, then the foul is to be penalized, but it is NOT a PC foul and the goal counts. You could go to the other end and award bonus FTs with no time on the clock.

NCAAW = same as NFHS

NCAAM
A. This is not a PC foul. Therefore, the goal counts.
I'll research how to handle the contact.

B. Same as NFHS

[CaRef5]

wouldnt that be a pc and the ball is just waved off, no matter if it goes in or not...its still a pc

[rockchalk jhawk]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NCAAM
A. This is not a PC foul. Therefore, the goal counts.
I'll research how to handle the contact.

would you not just count the bucket and head for the lockers? obviously you would have a foul on A1, but since the contact happened after the release, you count the bucket and you can't shoot any free throws because of the fact it is a team control foul, so that's the ballgame. you don't ignore the contact, but the contact in this situation becomes irrelevant as no free throws can come of it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk

would you not just count the bucket and head for the lockers? obviously you would have a foul on A1, but since the contact happened after the release, you count the bucket and you can't shoot any free throws because of the fact it is a team control foul, so that's the ballgame. you don't ignore the contact, but the contact in this situation becomes irrelevant as no free throws can come of it.

There's TC after a try has been released? Alert Ed Bilik because the rule book needs to be changed to reflect this "new interp."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk

would you not just count the bucket and head for the lockers? obviously you would have a foul on A1, but since the contact happened after the release, you count the bucket and you can't shoot any free throws because of the fact it is a team control foul, so that's the ballgame. you don't ignore the contact, but the contact in this situation becomes irrelevant as no free throws can come of it.

It's not a PC or TC foul, sir. The ball was released on a try for goal ending both player and team control.

I'm not sure that the NCAAM rules contain a provision similar to the NFHS rules which provides for penalizing a foul BY an airborne shooter while the ball is dead. I believe so, but since I'm not sure, I said that I would research it rather than post something that turns out to be incorrect, which is what you have just done.

[rockchalk jhawk]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's not a PC or TC foul, sir. The ball was released on a try for goal ending both player and team control.

I'm not sure that the NCAAM rules contain a provision similar to the NFHS rules which provides for penalizing a foul BY an airborne shooter while the ball is dead. I believe so, but since I'm not sure, I said that I would research it rather than post something that turns out to be incorrect, which is what you have just done.

OK, excuse me as I used the wrong terminology when I said TC. But the fact remains that in NCAAM you can count the bucket if the try is released before the crash happens, have a foul on A1 for fouling B1 who had legal position, and give the ball to B1. I called that a TC foul, which you are correct it is not. I'm not sure what 'name' you'd give to that type of foul, my apologies.

You know, I'm here trying to provide my input on discussion to a legitimate question so that I can learn and have some knowledge in case such a situation arises in the future. You, sir, are being less than constructive in pointing out that what I posted wasn't correct. The point of this forum is to expand our knowledge, not to act better than thou... What do I gain in coming here and trying to contribute to the discussion if you're going to be such a prick when you point out the fairly innocent mistake in conversation? I may have a low post count, but I've lurked here for years and this isn't the first time this has been pointed out to you. Yes, you have a great knowledge of the written rules, congratulations. Try to be a little more humble about it.

[mbyron]

If it's not a TC or PC foul, it would be a common foul. We're still waiting on Nevada's research about this call.

These distinctions matter to calling the game correctly. Nevada is zealous about respecting the rules and pointing out sloppiness, but it's up to you whether you take that personally.

And, he did call you "sir".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk

OK, excuse me as I used the wrong terminology when I said TC. But the fact remains that in NCAAM you can count the bucket if the try is released before the crash happens, have a foul on A1 for fouling B1 who had legal position, and give the ball to B1. I called that a TC foul, which you are correct it is not. I'm not sure what 'name' you'd give to that type of foul, my apologies.

I'm not going to defend his post, but Nevada is right that it matters what you call this. It's not just semantics, in that since you thought it was a TC foul, you thought free throws would not be attempted. That's the important distinction with a TC foul.

[rockchalk jhawk]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not going to defend his post, but Nevada is right that it matters what you call this. It's not just semantics, in that since you thought it was a TC foul, you thought free throws would not be attempted. That's the important distinction with a TC foul.

I did call it the wrong thing. I never meant to imply that free throws would be shot. I'm not sure without looking, but I think I even said somehwere that free throws would not be shot. Tough to convey over written word, but I've understood from the get-go that in a shot release followed by a crash situation that you can count the bucket (NCAAM) but have a foul on A and give ball to B. What exactly do you call that type of foul? We've established it's not a PC or TC.