offensive foul - count the bucket ???

GA ref · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 07:56am

A1 shoots a jump shot. AFTER the ball as been released,
A4 fouls B4 in the low post . Is the basket counted or not ? I believe that it is not counted when the offensive team fouls, BUT is counted when it is a defensive foul. Please respond for both HS and college games. I have looked through the HS rule book twice and I can't find a rule that pretains.

Lotto · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 08:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by GA ref
A1 shoots a jump shot. AFTER the ball as been released,
A4 fouls B4 in the low post . Is the basket counted or not ? I believe that it is not counted when the offensive team fouls, BUT is counted when it is a defensive foul. Please respond for both HS and college games. I have looked through the HS rule book twice and I can't find a rule that pretains.

The basket counts in all cases (NF, NCAAM/W). The situation that causes a basket not to count is a player-control foul. Check out the definition of PC foul in Rule 4 and the live/dead ball regulations in Rule 6. (I can give more specific references for the NCAA rules. I don't use NF rules so I don't have those books.)

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 09:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by GA ref
I have looked through the HS rule book twice and I can't find a rule that pretains.

Look in the live-ball / dead-ball rule under "When the ball becomes dead."

Take particular notice of the exceptions.

rainmaker · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:19am

Continuation does not apply on any offensive foul. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of. But after the release, the basket counts unless the foul is committed by the shooter.

Dan_ref · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

... But after the release, the basket counts unless the foul is committed by the shooter.

To complete the picture, this is NOT the case under ncaa mens rules.

GA ref · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:57am

Thanks to all. This was a situation that came up at a NCAA camp this weekend. I thought that it should count. The clinician (experienced NCAA D1) said that it should not count.

rockyroad · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 11:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by GA ref
Thanks to all. This was a situation that came up at a NCAA camp this weekend. I thought that it should count. The clinician (experienced NCAA D1) said that it should not count.

Then that clinician did not bother to read any of the NCAA memos which came out last season...if the shooter has started their motion (ball does not have to have left their hand), and a teammate commits a team control foul - the basket will still count...(uhmmm, only speaking for NCAAW here)

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 11:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
if the shooter has started their motion (ball does not have to have left their hand), and a teammate commits a team control foul - the basket will still count...(uhmmm, only speaking for NCAAW here)

Really, rocky?!?! Shooter jumps, teammate fouls, shooter releases, ball goes in, and you're going to count it?

rockyroad · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
if the shooter has started their motion (ball does not have to have left their hand), and a teammate commits a team control foul - the basket will still count...(uhmmm, only speaking for NCAAW here)

Really, rocky?!?! Shooter jumps, teammate fouls, shooter releases, ball goes in, and you're going to count it?

According to the memo we received in Jan., that is the correct intrepretation...I don't makes the "rules", I just calls them...

Unfortunately, I sometimes don't reads them very well!!! Just went back and reread the memo - it applies to a DEFENSIVE foul on someone besides the shooter... does not apply to a team control foul...thanks for keeping me honest, Chuck!!

[Edited by rockyroad on Jun 16th, 2004 at 03:14 PM]

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 04:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
if the shooter has started their motion (ball does not have to have left their hand), and a teammate commits a team control foul - the basket will still count...(uhmmm, only speaking for NCAAW here)

Really, rocky?!?! Shooter jumps, teammate fouls, shooter releases, ball goes in, and you're going to count it?

According to the memo we received in Jan., that is the correct intrepretation...I don't makes the "rules", I just calls them...

Unfortunately, I sometimes don't reads them very well!!! Just went back and reread the memo - it applies to a DEFENSIVE foul on someone besides the shooter... does not apply to a team control foul...thanks for keeping me honest, Chuck!!

[Edited by rockyroad on Jun 16th, 2004 at 03:14 PM]

So thinking back quickly over the season, how many wrong calls did you make? Or is this not a reading issue, but just a senior moment?

rockyroad · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 04:47pm

As it turns out, none!!! But I will be having a little chat with the evaluator who wrote me up for doing it wrong - when I actually did it right...A3 was shooting and A5 levelled B5 in front of me at C...called the foul, waved off basket (ball was still in shooter's hands) and got reamed for it...turns out i was right...

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 04:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
[/B]

Unfortunately, I sometimes don't reads them very well!!! Just went back and reread the memo - it applies to a DEFENSIVE foul on someone besides the shooter... does not apply to a team control foul.
[/B][/QUOTE]
So thinking back quickly over the season, how many wrong calls did you make? Or is this not a reading issue, but just a senior moment?
[/B][/QUOTE]Great choices she's giving you, Rocky. You've either screwed up calls, you can't read, or your minds going because you're old. Which door ya picking?

rainmaker · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Unfortunately, I sometimes don't reads them very well!!! Just went back and reread the memo - it applies to a DEFENSIVE foul on someone besides the shooter... does not apply to a team control foul.
[/B]

So thinking back quickly over the season, how many wrong calls did you make? Or is this not a reading issue, but just a senior moment?
[/B][/QUOTE]Great choices she's giving you, Rocky. You've either screwed up calls, you can't read, or your minds going because you're old. Which door ya picking?

[/B][/QUOTE]

#4!! Great choice, DJ!!

rockyroad · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 09:30pm

Whew...got out of that one pretty slick, didn't I JR???

Dan_ref · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 09:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Unfortunately, I sometimes don't reads them very well!!! Just went back and reread the memo - it applies to a DEFENSIVE foul on someone besides the shooter... does not apply to a team control foul.
[/B]

So thinking back quickly over the season, how many wrong calls did you make? Or is this not a reading issue, but just a senior moment?
[/B][/QUOTE]Great choices she's giving you, Rocky. You've either screwed up calls, you can't read, or your minds going because you're old. Which door ya picking?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Could be she's saying he's a racist because he's old?

Ever consider that possibility...?

Just sayin'...