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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:00pm
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Correctable Error?

A1 is fouled by B1. The table says we are in the bonus. A1 shoots and misses the 1st shot when Team B rebounds the ball. The table buzzes us over and says its only 6 fouls. So I give team B the ball because of the POI since they had possession of the ball when the table buzz us over. Did I do this right? And if possible, can I have the case and rule book number. Thanks
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:02pm
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Rule is 2-10, case play should be similar.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budjones05 View Post
A1 is fouled by B1. The table says we are in the bonus. A1 shoots and misses the 1st shot when Team B rebounds the ball. The table buzzes us over and says its only 6 fouls. So I give team B the ball because of the POI since they had possession of the ball when the table buzz us over. Did I do this right? And if possible, can I have the case and rule book number. Thanks
According to the NCAA casebook, you didn't do this right. The ruling makes sense in that it doesn't lead to A having lost the possession it deserved as a result of the foul.

A.R. 22. Before the bonus rule is in effect, B1 fouls A1. The official errs by awarding A1 a one-and-one attempt.
(3) A1 misses the front end of the one-and-one and the game clock starts, at which time the official detects the error;
RULING: (3) Team A shall be awarded the ball at a designated spot nearest to where the foul occurred. The free throw(s) and activity during it, other than any technical foul, a flagrant personal foul or an intentional personal foul shall be canceled. Any points scored, time consumed and additional activity that may occur before the recognition of the error, shall not be nullified.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budjones05 View Post
A1 is fouled by B1. The table says we are in the bonus. A1 shoots and misses the 1st shot when Team B rebounds the ball. The table buzzes us over and says its only 6 fouls. So I give team B the ball because of the POI since they had possession of the ball when the table buzz us over. Did I do this right? And if possible, can I have the case and rule book number. Thanks

2.10.1G(c)

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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotto View Post
According to the NCAA casebook, you didn't do this right. The ruling makes sense in that it doesn't lead to A having lost the possession it deserved as a result of the foul.

A.R. 22. Before the bonus rule is in effect, B1 fouls A1. The official errs by awarding A1 a one-and-one attempt.
(3) A1 misses the front end of the one-and-one and the game clock starts, at which time the official detects the error;
RULING: (3) Team A shall be awarded the ball at a designated spot nearest to where the foul occurred. The free throw(s) and activity during it, other than any technical foul, a flagrant personal foul or an intentional personal foul shall be canceled. Any points scored, time consumed and additional activity that may occur before the recognition of the error, shall not be nullified.
other than points scored as a result of the unmerrited free throw...

I just wanted to clear that up for newer officials.

In other words, if A1 hits the first and misses the second now B rebounds and scores, A rebounds and scores and B once again before clock stops or error is recognized B would keep the four points it scored, A gets the two but loses the free throw and then they get the ball OOB nearest the spot where the fould occured.
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Last edited by w_sohl; Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 07:17pm.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:39pm
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Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
other than points scored as a result of the unmerrited free throw...

I just wanted to clear that up for newer officials.

In other words, if A1 hits the first and misses the second now B rebounds and scores, A rebounds and scores and B once again before clock stops or error is recognized B would keep the four points it scored, A gets the two but loses the free throw and then they get the ball OOB nearest the spot where the fould occured.
I'm not positive, but I think after all of this action, it would be too late to be corrected.

And if it's not, A would get the ball for an endline due to the POI, not the foul.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I'm not positive, but I think after all of this action, it would be too late to be corrected.

And if it's not, A would get the ball for an endline due to the POI, not the foul.
You can correct a correctable error anytime as long as the clock hasn't stopped and restarted. In the example I gave the clock never stopped during the three trips up and down the floor. Technically if the game was played cleanly you could correct an error from the beginning of a qtr and the end of that qtr. You would look very foolish doing so though.

My spot may be wrong, but I think it is right.
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Last edited by w_sohl; Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 07:18pm.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:50pm
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Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
You can correct a correctable error anytime as long as the clock hasn't stopped and restarted. In the example I gave the clock never stopped during the three trips up and down the floor. Technically if the game was played cleanly you could correct an error from the beginning of a qtr and the end of that qtr. You would look very foolish doing so though.

My spot may be wrong, but I think it is right.
Nope, there are dead ball limitations as well. I believe it has to be discovered prior to the 2nd live ball after the clock starts.

As for the spot: once you have a change in possession, you'll go to POI after the correction.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Nope, there are dead ball limitations as well. I believe it has to be discovered prior to the 2nd live ball after the clock starts.

As for the spot: once you have a change in possession, you'll go to POI after the correction.

Correct and the clock never stopped in my sitch. They were all made baskets with no violations, fouls or timeouts. Clock never stopped so we have yet to have a 2nd live clock after the error was discovered. In my sitch you can still correct.
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Last edited by w_sohl; Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 07:18pm.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:58pm
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Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
Correct and the clock never stopped in my sitch. They were all made baskets with no violations, fouls or timeouts. Clock never stopped so we have yet to have a 2nd live clock after the error was discovered. In my sitch you can still correct.
Not a 2nd live clock, a 2nd live ball after the clock starts (if the error occurs with the clock stopped). FT errors occur with the clock stopped; once it starts the error must be corrected prior to the 2nd live ball.

If the error occurs while the clock is running, it must be discovered and corrected prior to the 2nd live ball.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 04:02pm
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Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
Correct and the clock never stopped in my sitch. They were all made baskets with no violations, fouls or timeouts. Clock never stopped so we have yet to have a 2nd live clock after the error was discovered. In my sitch you can still correct.
The clock not stopping is not what matters. When the ball goes thru the basket, it becomes dead. When the non-scoring team has the ball available for the throw-in, it has become live again. The clock didn't stop, but we had a live ball - dead ball - live ball. Too late to correct the error.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
other than points scored as a result of the unmerrited free throw...

In other words, if A1 hits the first and misses the second now B rebounds and scores, A rebounds and scores and B once again before clock stops or error is recognized B would keep the four points it scored, A gets the two but loses the free throw and then they get the ball OOB nearest the spot where the fould occured.
The clock didn't stop, but didn't you had three dead balls (after each score)?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 04:04pm
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This is not correctable

Quote:
Originally Posted by w_sohl View Post
Correct and the clock never stopped in my sitch. They were all made baskets with no violations, fouls or timeouts. Clock never stopped so we have yet to have a 2nd live clock after the error was discovered. In my sitch you can still correct.
Snaqwells said live ball not live clock. The error must be corrected during the first dead ball after the clock started. So when B scored, the ball became dead even though the clock was still running. It is during this dead ball situation that you must correct the error.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 04:08pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
2.10.1G(c)

You were right.
So A's unmerited free throws are canceled, and instead A is awarded.........
nothing. This one kinda sucks, doesn't it?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 04:12pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So A's unmerited free throws are canceled, and instead A is awarded.........
nothing. This one kinda sucks, doesn't it?
I'm not a fan, either. I'd like to see A get the ball at the spot of the foul on this. I think the Fed considers this a change in possession (A shooting, B rebounding).
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