First 2 Block/Charge Philosophy

[zeedonk]

Hi all-

Struggling a little bit with the following:

My 2nd year (I keep telling y'all that)- as we are moving to better games the more senior officials have been advising us to pregame the first two block/charges of the game. Goes something like this- if I'm lead and I have a player control on my end and we go back down and you have something similar, you'd better be calling a player control foul as well...

OK, I get why- we don't want to start the game 1-looking like the 2 officials are on different pages and 2- giving one or both coaches reason to start getting on us for being inconsistent. Here's my problem- what if I get the second block/charge and it's a no-question not-even-close block? I'm supposed to tank the call so we look consistent? Even better, if I'm your partner, am I gonna get the business if I go with the block?

I'm pretty sure I'm adding that question to my pregame with veteran partners...

Thanks
Z

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

Hi all-

Struggling a little bit with the following:

My 2nd year (I keep telling y'all that)- as we are moving to better games the more senior officials have been advising us to pregame the first two block/charges of the game. Goes something like this- if I'm lead and I have a player control on my end and we go back down and you have something similar, you'd better be calling a player control foul as well...

OK, I get why- we don't want to start the game 1-looking like the 2 officials are on different pages and 2- giving one or both coaches reason to start getting on us for being inconsistent. Here's my problem- what if I get the second block/charge and it's a no-question not-even-close block? I'm supposed to tank the call so we look consistent? Even better, if I'm your partner, am I gonna get the business if I go with the block?

I'm pretty sure I'm adding that question to my pregame with veteran partners...

Thanks
Z

I disagree with this philosophy. If you see a block or charge, call it! I would not let my call ride on the last block/charge. If you see an obvious block and you call it a charge because that is what was called the last time down court, you are doing a disservice to your integrity.

-Josh

[rlarry]

You don't tank the call. You make the call that needs to be made. in my pregames with newer officials, I use the hand check rule as an example for consistency. It is a call that some guys never make. I stress to my partners that if we call one on one end, let's make sure we call it the same way on the other.

Originally Posted by zeedonk

block/charges of the game. Goes something like this- if I'm lead and I have a player control on my end and we go back down and you have something similar, you'd better be calling a player control foul as well...

Originally Posted by jdmara

If you see an obvious block and you call it a charge because that is what was called the last time down court, you are doing a disservice to your integrity.

There is a difference...
Similar plays called in a similar manner vs. 2 wrongs don't make it right

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

what if I get the second block/charge and it's a no-question not-even-close block? I'm supposed to tank the call so we look consistent?

Zee, this is not the play we're talking about. We're talking about a bang-bang that is so close, it could go either way. We see these a lot. In fact, we've had a few videos posted over the last few months of exactly this type of play. We watch the play on video in slow motion 10 times and we still can't agree amongst ourselves if it's a block or PC.

That's the kind of play your veteran partners are talking about. We want all those plays (if there is more than one) to be the same outcome.

However, if I have a play where the defender has been a statue for 10 seconds and gets plowed over, and then 2 minutes later you have a play where the defender undercuts the shooter after he's airborne, we better darn well have different calls on those!!

I don't ever want you to "tank" a call because of something that I called earlier.

[grunewar]

While I understand their thought process....ya can't just call a charge because your partner did. You as a "team" must be consistent. A block is a block and a charge is a charge.

As long as you are consistent, firm (not wishy washy), know what you saw, and know the difference, you should be able to explain to a coach, evaluator, etc. why you called what you did - AND most importantly, it wll be coinsistent with your partner(s).

As you point out the plays may be similar, but then again not so much. Me, I'm standing by my guns. JMO

[iref4him]

When I first started to officiate I was told the same thing by senior officials. Their reasoning was if the play is close and you call it the same way -- the coaches get off your back. IT DIDN'T MATTER!!!

I tell younger officials to just officiate the game, apply the rules correctly, advantage/disadvantage. You are going to be right and sometime you are going to be wrong. Get into position. If it is charge sell it. If it is a block, sell it. (Sometimes the call doesn't need selling.)

There are officials who I work with still go by that philosophy and it is not teaching the game correctly to the inexperienced officials. I have even had some of the inexperienced officials tell me during pre-game that this is the way the have been told to do. Then, I have to de-program them.

[zeedonk]

[QUOTE=Scrapper1;551188]Zee, this is not the play we're talking about. We're talking about a bang-bang that is so close, it could go either way. We see these a lot.
That's the kind of play your veteran partners are talking about. We want all those plays (if there is more than one) to be the same outcome.QUOTE]


OK, that's what I thought. That makes much more sense than what I was worried about. Now I can add a note in my mind for the 1st quarter... "look for 1st block/charge call- what was it? look for same on my end"..

By the way, would it be correct to not worry about that call past the 1st quarter? What I mean is, if there are no PC fouls (or there is 1 but nothing else) am I still still looking for a 3rd Q bang-bang to go the same way my partner called in the 1st?

[rlarry]

OK, that's what I thought. That makes much more sense than what I was worried about. Now I can add a note in my mind for the 1st quarter... "look for 1st block/charge call- what was it? look for same on my end"..

By the way, would it be correct to not worry about that call past the 1st quarter? What I mean is, if there are no PC fouls (or there is 1 but nothing else) am I still still looking for a 3rd Q bang-bang to go the same way my partner called in the 1st?

Consistent through the entire game. As my partner said to a coach at AAU this summer "We may suck, but we're consistent"

[Mregor]

The crew should strive for consistency throughout the entire game, first to third doesn't matter.

[jritchie]

I've always been told a good way to look at these close calls, A block is a block and charge is a charge, anything in the middle, "tweeners", are charges, give the defense the benefit of the doubt if you have to guess! So if you have two tweeners, should have 2 charges, very consistent that way!

[mbyron]

What we often pre-game is how to handle double whistles. We make eye contact, think about whose primary it is, and the other guy puts his hand down.

Takes 2 seconds and prevents the ugly "it's a block, no it's a charge" call. Disagreements about the call get handled in the locker room: on the floor we nod and say "good call."

[chartrusepengui]

Takes 2 seconds and prevents the ugly "it's a block, no it's a charge" call. Disagreements about the call get handled in the locker room: on the floor we nod and say "good call."

Also why the mechanic is fist in air - followed by another signal. You see a lot more of these double different calls when officials whistle and go straight to the the signal w/o fist in air first.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

There is a difference...
Similar plays called in a similar manner vs. 2 wrongs don't make it right

We had this Saturday in a JUCO Game on consecutive trip in the first half and just a couple of trips a part in the second.

in the first half they were similar calls with the block on a airborne shooter second half they were both player control fouls for clearing out.

Similar plays - Similar calls that establishes your consistency.

If one is an obvious block and the other is an obvious Charge then call it that way because they aren't similar - but when they are similar call them in a similar manner and the coach has no standing to argue with you, "we called it the same way on the other end coach"

[BillyMac]

From my pregame:

Consistency
Let’s see if we can call the same game. Be consistent with each other. Let’s try to remember what we’ve called earlier in the game, and what we haven’t called. Be consistent with what has already happened in the game.