End of game sitch

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

no pro philosophy to it really.... just seems like an unprofessional way to handle the situation by showing up a KID or I would say make him look clueless but I would have to say it makes the official look more clueless than anything. I've never even seen a college official, or a HS official for that matter decline to catch and throw the ball back to the player, granted i'm a lot younger than you both so if you have seen it please let me know, besides you doing it yourself of course.

I don't really see much of an advantage gained here by doing this either and I don't believe gaining extra time to throw the ball in is relevant.

-It doesn't help the new offensive team if the new defensive team is pressing. It just gives the defense a chance to better set up their defensive press.

-If the defense isn't pressing... then what does it matter if he tosses it to you. He won't actually need that full extra 2 seconds it takes for him to toss the ball to you and you toss it right back.

But if you fill it is that pertinent, give the OFFENSIVE TEAM a Delay of Game. Weird and unusual... but if you think it is dead set necessary... by all means.

I've re-read this several times and if it comes off condescending i apologize as that is not my intent. just trying to get my point firmly placed.

It's obvious in this case why the player threw the ball to the official. To get a new 5 second count, and eat more time off the clock, thus allowing the the other team less opportunity to get the ball back and score. How do you not see this as an advantage; it's clearly an advantage not intended by the rules.

Your point is clear. I think you're wrong and I think you're missing the obvious advantage B1 is looking for in the OP.

BTW, I'm amending my 2nd option. Instead of bouncing it back to him, I might let it hit me and bounce straight down. The ref is part of the court. If I'm standing in bounds, it's a throwin and he better not touch it next.

B1 is an idiot on this play. No one will think I'm the idiot; everyone will know what the player was trying to do. How many times a season do you have a new offensive player throw you the ball after a made bucket?

I only see it in middle school and below; never at even the JV level. It's a bush league move, and I'm not going to be a party to it. If I do as you suggest and "suspend" my count, or worse, I'll look like a fool for falling for his little trick and giving them an extra 3 seconds (or more) to eat the clock up.

And please stop suggesting people give DOG warnings that are clearly not called for in the rules. The only good thing about that suggestion is that it would stop the clock, but you don't need a DOG warning for that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's obvious in this case why the player threw the ball to the official. To get a new 5 second count, and eat more time off the clock, thus allowing the the other team less opportunity to get the ball back and score. How do you not see this as an advantage; it's clearly an advantage not intended by the rules.

Your point is clear. I think you're wrong and I think you're missing the obvious advantage B1 is looking for in the OP.

BTW, I'm amending my 2nd option. Instead of bouncing it back to him, I might let it hit me and bounce straight down. The ref is part of the court. If I'm standing in bounds, it's a throwin and he better not touch it next.

B1 is an idiot on this play. No one will think I'm the idiot; everyone will know what the player was trying to do. How many times a season do you have a new offensive player throw you the ball after a made bucket?

I only see it in middle school and below; never at even the JV level. It's a bush league move, and I'm not going to be a party to it. If I do as you suggest and "suspend" my count, or worse, I'll look like a fool for falling for his little trick and giving them an extra 3 seconds (or more) to eat the clock up.

And please stop suggesting people give DOG warnings that are clearly not called for in the rules. The only good thing about that suggestion is that it would stop the clock, but you don't need a DOG warning for that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's obvious in this case why the player threw the ball to the official. To get a new 5 second count, and eat more time off the clock, thus allowing the the other team less opportunity to get the ball back and score. How do you not see this as an advantage; it's clearly an advantage not intended by the rules.

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

Yup, my third option. Personally, I'm okay with any of the following, plus what I'll call 2.5, letting it hit me and bouncing straight down while continuing my count.

1, 2, and 2.5 are likely to result in a 5 second violation. 3 is just as good.

It might just depend on how quickly I can think. If I catch it without thinking, I'll kill the clock. If I think quickly enough to get out of the way, even better.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see three options here.

1. Your option is a good one; letting it roll and continuing the count.

2. Bat it back to him and continue the count. Don't start it over.

3. Stop the clock and re-administer. This defeats B1's purpose and allows A to set up their defense.

Personally, I like all three but prefer #1.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

If done that way, then what is the punishment to the attempted cheater? He is no worse off now than he was before. Perhaps he lost about two seconds which would have come off the clock before he executed an inbounds pass, but his team still has the ball. He basically got a free opportunity to gain an unfair advantage.

I like moving out of the way and letting the player's throw roll away while his five seconds expires. If there is any justice, a five second violation will occur and his team will lose possession.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If done that way, then what is the punishment to the attempted cheater? He is no worse off now than he was before. Perhaps he lost about two seconds which would have come off the clock before he executed an inbounds pass, but his team still has the ball. He basically got a free opportunity to gain an unfair advantage.

I like moving out of the way and letting the player's throw roll away while his five seconds expires. If there is any justice, a five second violation will occur and his team will lose possession.

The advantage they were seeking was to have more time run off the clock by having you delay the start of the 5 count...they were ahead. Stopping the clock kills the advantage they wanted. Now they only get the 1-2 seconds that have already come off the clock instead of the 5 they'd get by either dodging the ball or batting it back to them. They have to make the throwin now and the other team has a fair chance to steal it instead of being shorted a couple of seconds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The advantage they were seeking was to have more time run off the clock by having you delay the start of the 5 count...they were ahead. Stopping the clock kills the advantage they wanted. Now they only get 1-2 seconds off the clock instead of 5. They have to make the throwin now and the other team has a fair chance to steal it instead of being shorted a couple of seconds.

Right, you denied them the unfair advantage that they were seeking, but I asked you WHAT PUNISHMENT is there for the attempted cheating? Your answer is that we now have a situation that is fair. Does the team that just tried to cheat deserve a level situation at this point?

I still say that you are letting them off the hook. Handled your way, there is no real downside to the unsporting action.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Right, you denied them the unfair advantage that they were seeking, but I asked you WHAT PUNISHMENT is there for the attempted cheating? Your answer is that we now have a situation that is fair. Does the team that just tried to cheat deserve a level situation at this point?

I still say that you are letting them off the hook. Handled your way, there is no real downside to the unsporting action.

Sure there is....they wanted 5+ seconds off the clock, and legally could get 5. By me blowing the whistle, they get 1-2 only. That's what they lose. Not a big punishment, but one nonetheless.