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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 03:03pm
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A Varsity official brought up a situation in our pre-game the other night about what happen to a young Varsity crew.

Situation:

Home Team A had just scored to go ahead by 2 pts. Team B was bringing the ball up the court, with a few seconds left in the game, and had just passed the division line tableside. Player A1 swatted at the ball and the ball went OOB. After the official's whistle sounded...the timer's horn went off to "end the game".

The officials got together and decided that the ball went OOB before the horn sounded so they should put "some time" back on the clock. They put on one second and gave the ball to Team B for a throw-in.

Player B1 inbounded to B2 in the corner to shoot a 3.
The 3pt attempt went in...horn sounds...game over...Team B wins by 1.
But wait...the center official, opposite table is waving the shot off.
The officials got together and the C said that the clock hadn't started in time. He stated that time would have ran out had the timer started the clock properly.
After a lengthy meeting...the officials decided to count the basket...Visiting Team B won the game...and the officials left the court (quickly) among a chourus of boos.

Watta ya got?

(If you think the game was over after the first horn...what would you have for the second mishap?)



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
A Varsity official brought up a situation in our pre-game the other night about what happen to a young Varsity crew.

Situation:

Home Team A had just scored to go ahead by 2 pts. Team B was bringing the ball up the court, with a few seconds left in the game, and had just passed the division line tableside. Player A1 swatted at the ball and the ball went OOB. After the official's whistle sounded...the timer's horn went off to "end the game".

The officials got together and decided that the ball went OOB before the horn sounded so they should put "some time" back on the clock. They put on one second and gave the ball to Team B for a throw-in.

Player B1 inbounded to B2 in the corner to shoot a 3.
The 3pt attempt went in...horn sounds...game over...Team B wins by 1.
But wait...the center official, opposite table is waving the shot off.
The officials got together and the C said that the clock hadn't started in time. He stated that time would have ran out had the timer started the clock properly.
After a lengthy meeting...the officials decided to count the basket...Visiting Team B won the game...and the officials left the court (quickly) among a chourus of boos.

Watta ya got?

(If you think the game was over after the first horn...what would you have for the second mishap?)
Didn't this happen 32 years ago? I think Russia was Team B.

It sounds to me that the clock should not have been reset the first time. But I wasn't there. There is a lag time allowed, I believe it is 1 second for the timer to react and stop the official timepiece. To put 1 second back on the clock, means that there was 2 seconds on the clock when the whistle went to signal the OB.

So let's say there should have been time on the clock, I contend that above all else, team B must release the ball before the buzzer sounds. This is how the players decide the game.

If the clock did in fact start late, following the B player in the corner first touching it, then I think you gotta reset to 1 second again and go again. Coach A is already going ape at this point and what happens when he reviews game tape and sees that the clock was not properly started?I mean, let's face it: a pass from OB just over the division line to IB in the corner does not lend the shooter to an easy natural flow of catching and shooting.

Sure, the timekeeper might be from A's school, but this is why we need the Precision Time system in high schools.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 03:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
A Varsity official brought up a situation in our pre-game the other night about what happen to a young Varsity crew.

Situation:

Home Team A had just scored to go ahead by 2 pts. Team B was bringing the ball up the court, with a few seconds left in the game, and had just passed the division line tableside. Player A1 swatted at the ball and the ball went OOB. After the official's whistle sounded...the timer's horn went off to "end the game".

The officials got together and decided that the ball went OOB before the horn sounded so they should put "some time" back on the clock. They put on one second and gave the ball to Team B for a throw-in.

Player B1 inbounded to B2 in the corner to shoot a 3.
The 3pt attempt went in...horn sounds...game over...Team B wins by 1.
But wait...the center official, opposite table is waving the shot off.
The officials got together and the C said that the clock hadn't started in time. He stated that time would have ran out had the timer started the clock properly.
After a lengthy meeting...the officials decided to count the basket...Visiting Team B won the game...and the officials left the court (quickly) among a chourus of boos.

Watta ya got?

(If you think the game was over after the first horn...what would you have for the second mishap?)



If they had to get together to decide, then the game was over after the OOB -- clearly less than the one second lag provided for by the NFHS.

Now, assuming that there was time and the second thing happened....I may have simply counted the basket. The timer for the home team potentially gives the VISITING team an extra split second to get a shot off? I'm not touching that. Maybe.

However, I'm pretty vigilant about watching the clock late in the game and what I always tell myself is -- if the clock doesn't start properly get a good strong whistle off before the shot goes and reset the clock and readminister the throw in. I know that many will not like this solution, but it is really the only equitable thing to do, I think.

Surprise is the enemy in this situation and this is the kind of thing that should (but frequently doesn't) get pregamed. Counting the basket after the C waved it off? I wouldn't have done that, I don't think.

Last night we had a foul with 2.6 seconds left in a college game (no courtside monitor). The timer was right on the clock -- I know because I was watching the clock since the ball was on the opposite side of the court. Home team wanted me to put time up, but they were just looking for some help

--Rich
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 03:26pm
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Posts: 188
without definite knowledge, I wouldn't put anytime back on the clock; that said, with seconds remaining in the game, I am counting down the seconds silently to myself in case something like this happens; and then there is the "lag time" that should be allowed (1 second max, I believe)for the timer to hear the whistle and turn off the clock. As I said, game over w/out certain knowledge of the time left on the clock when the whistle sounded.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 02:51am
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Clear;y if the lag was less than 1 second, why not put 0.3 seconds on the clock, then you've placated the visitors and they need a tip to tie the game. It takes catch and shoot and timer considerations out of the question.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 07:20pm
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Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
A Varsity official brought up a situation in our pre-game the other night about what happen to a young Varsity crew.

Situation:

Home Team A had just scored to go ahead by 2 pts. Team B was bringing the ball up the court, with a few seconds left in the game, and had just passed the division line tableside. Player A1 swatted at the ball and the ball went OOB. After the official's whistle sounded...the timer's horn went off to "end the game".

The officials got together and decided that the ball went OOB before the horn sounded so they should put "some time" back on the clock. They put on one second and gave the ball to Team B for a throw-in.

Player B1 inbounded to B2 in the corner to shoot a 3.
The 3pt attempt went in...horn sounds...game over...Team B wins by 1.
But wait...the center official, opposite table is waving the shot off.
The officials got together and the C said that the clock hadn't started in time. He stated that time would have ran out had the timer started the clock properly.
After a lengthy meeting...the officials decided to count the basket...Visiting Team B won the game...and the officials left the court (quickly) among a chourus of boos.

Watta ya got?

(If you think the game was over after the first horn...what would you have for the second mishap?)
Didn't this happen 32 years ago? I think Russia was Team B.

It sounds to me that the clock should not have been reset the first time. But I wasn't there. There is a lag time allowed, I believe it is 1 second for the timer to react and stop the official timepiece. To put 1 second back on the clock, means that there was 2 seconds on the clock when the whistle went to signal the OB.

So let's say there should have been time on the clock, I contend that above all else, team B must release the ball before the buzzer sounds. This is how the players decide the game.

If the clock did in fact start late, following the B player in the corner first touching it, then I think you gotta reset to 1 second again and go again. Coach A is already going ape at this point and what happens when he reviews game tape and sees that the clock was not properly started?I mean, let's face it: a pass from OB just over the division line to IB in the corner does not lend the shooter to an easy natural flow of catching and shooting.

Sure, the timekeeper might be from A's school, but this is why we need the Precision Time system in high schools.
If the clock started later why would you reset and do it again? You have definite knowledge the clock did not start. Waving it off is the right thing to do. By counting this basket they gave the win to B (gave extra time) The ball has to be released before the expiration of time. Without tenths it may have been almost 2 second, but counting down -1-0 where the ^^&& is the horn is plently of time to make sure shot was not off... Blow it and game is done. WE dont have to wait for a horn, and I am sure not going to redo this (no rules to back up)
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2004, 03:48pm
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The only wat to put time back on the clock is if there is definite knowledge of how much time should be on the clock. This is where a good pre-game conference and a brief huddle near the end of the game is important.
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