End of game sitch

[Mark Padgett]

This happens quite often at various points during games. I do my best to just jump out of the way of the ball and let it continue on its path with me continuing the count. After you do this once or twice in a game, it doesn't happen anymore. That's how kids learn. If a coach complains, remind him or her that it's their job to teach their kids the rules.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I do my best to just jump out of the way of the ball and let it continue on its path with me continuing the count. After you do this once or twice in a game, it doesn't happen anymore.

Seriously Mark? You are the last one I would expect to post this answer!

Why wouldn't you just catch the ball and toss it back to the player? Getting out of the way and continuing the count is just mean!

In the end of game situation posted, if I thought the player did it on purpose I might call a delay of game, put any time back on the clock, and start the inbound over.

(This should cause some good responses )

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Brad

Seriously Mark? You are the last one I would expect to post this answer! Why wouldn't you just catch the ball and toss it back to the player? Getting out of the way and continuing the count is just mean!
In the end of game situation posted, if I thought the player did it on purpose I might call a delay of game, put any time back on the clock, and start the inbound over.

I've just been sitting back here, reading others' posts, not wanting to take a stand on this obviously controversial, yet with little specific rule, or case situation, backing, issue, but I've decided to give it a shot.

I've had many, many, youth level games, where, especially at the beginning of the season, a confused player, after a made basket, will toss it to the official. I've just tossed it back. So, instinctively, I would probably do the same here.

That's my story, short and simple, and I'm sticking to it until the NFHS comes up with a rule, or case play, specific to this situation.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've just been sitting back here, reading others' posts, not wanting to take a stand on this obviously controversial, yet with little specific rule, or case situation, backing, issue, but I've decided to give it a shot.

I've had many, many, youth level games, where, especially at the beginning of the season, a confused player, after a made basket, will toss it to the official. I've just tossed it back. So, instinctively, I would probably do the same here.

That's my story, short and simple, and I'm sticking to it until the NFHS comes up with a rule, or case play, specific to this situation.

i've sat back on this issue just to see what more people would say and its good to see that common sense officiating is coming through in the end. I just try and picture an official moving out of the way of a dead ball that is clearly being tossed to him and it makes no practical sense to me...

I understand the value of time... trust me i do but i believe the fault for this time problem is placed on the NFHS. They should allow for the clock to stop under 1 min. in the last period so that this sitch under debate is not even a problem because now players, when taking the ball out with 6 or 7 seconds will toss the ball to the official and then doesn't have to throw the ball in. That cannot be put on us or the players. We are doing the right thing and the player is doing the smart thing in taking advantage of a hole in the rules.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Team A is down 4 points with less than 15 seconds on the game clock. A2 scores on a 3 point try... Team A is now down by 1. Team B delays in picking up the ball, the official begins his 5 second count. B1 sees the count, picks up the ball & tosses it to the official.
What would you do?

Any casebook play provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Originally Posted by btaylor64

i've sat back on this issue just to see what more people would say and its good to see that common sense officiating is coming through in the end. I just try and picture an official moving out of the way of a dead ball that is clearly being tossed to him and it makes no practical sense to me...

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

I understand he's not up to speed on all NFHS rules, but to miss a basic like this?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

To be fair, the ball might be dead....if the player grabbed the ball as it fell through the net and tossed it to the official before stepping OOB for the throwin and in such a way (quickly) such that the official didn't yet consider it to be at the thrower's disposal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

To be fair, the ball might be dead....if the player grabbed the ball as it fell through the net and tossed it to the official before stepping OOB for the throwin and in such a way (quickly) such that the official didn't yet consider it to be at the thrower's disposal.

I believe that if the player has it in his hands, and has the ball under his control, it's a live ball, even if the player is still inbounds, before going out of bounds, but I can be easily convinced otherwise, in other words, I wouldn't bet my house on it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

To be fair, the ball might be dead....if the player grabbed the ball as it fell through the net and tossed it to the official before stepping OOB for the throwin and in such a way (quickly) such that the official didn't yet consider it to be at the thrower's disposal.

Camron,
The OP was very clear and specific.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Team A is down 4 points with less than 15 seconds on the game clock. A2 scores on a 3 point try... Team A is now down by 1. Team B delays in picking up the ball, the official begins his 5 second count. B1 sees the count, picks up the ball & tosses it to the official.
What would you do?

Any casebook play provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Do you think that the official didn't consider it to be at the disposal?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

To be fair, the ball might be dead....if the player grabbed the ball as it fell through the net and tossed it to the official before stepping OOB for the throwin and in such a way (quickly) such that the official didn't yet consider it to be at the thrower's disposal.

No, as Nevada points out, in the OP, the ball was clearly live. B1 clearly looked at the official and saw the count, then tossed it to the official.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

I apologize for mispeaking, but it doesn't escape the point in what you are doing.


Someone said something about not going to catch the ball and start the count OVER. I never said start the count over i just said catch it and/or quickly bat it back to the player and CONTINUE the count from where you were. That, to me, is the best possible scenario. To do this shouldn't take any more than 1 sec.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I apologize for mispeaking, but it doesn't escape the point in what you are doing.


Someone said something about not going to catch the ball and start the count OVER. I never said start the count over i just said catch it and/or quickly bat it back to the player and CONTINUE the count from where you were. That, to me, is the best possible scenario. To do this shouldn't take any more than 1 sec.

You're right, you didn't say start the count over. I misspoke. You said to suspend it. Again, there's no "hole" in the rules here, but by your admission you would create one.

I have no problem with flipping it back to him; but I personally wouldn't hurry, nor would I suspend the count. Even suspending the count gives the new offense some of the illegal advantage they are seeking.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I would treat this like a player in the lane for 2 1/2 seconds and is thrown the ball. You delay the count if he is making a move to the basket. if he passes off then you continue the count.

I would catch the ball throw it to the player and continue the count.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I understand the value of time... trust me i do but i believe the fault for this time problem is placed on the NFHS. They should allow for the clock to stop under 1 min. in the last period so that this sitch under debate is not even a problem because now players, when taking the ball out with 6 or 7 seconds will toss the ball to the official and then doesn't have to throw the ball in. That cannot be put on us or the players. We are doing the right thing and the player is doing the smart thing in taking advantage of a hole in the rules.

There's no "hole" in the rules here, as there's no provision for a player tossing the ball to the official. At best, I'll bat it in their direction while continuing my count. If you catch it, start your count over, and keep the clock running, you've given them an advantage not intended by the rules.

If you give the D.O.G. warning, you've gone outside the rules, but at least you've addressed it and negated their advantage. There's no real "punishment," though.

Am I likely to get out of the way? Probably not. But I am more likely than not just to let it hit me and keep bouncing while my hand keeps swinging.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

i believe the fault for this time problem is placed on the NFHS. They should allow for the clock to stop under 1 min. in the last period

I personally do not like changing the rules of the game, based on the amount of time in the game. Why should we change the game simply because we're under a minute? Is the 5 seconds between 00:59 and 00:54 of the fourth quarter any more valuable than the 5 seconds between 1:59 and 1:54; or than the last 5 seconds of the 2nd quarter?

There was a suggestion for a rule change in the last year or two about making the second foul in the last 2 minutes of the game automatically a 1-and-1, even if it was only the 3rd team foul of the half. I understand the rationale (the trailing team is just going to keep fouling until they hit 7 anyway), but I basically dislike changing the rules of the game based solely on the time remaining. It seems too arbitrary to me.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've just been sitting back here, reading others' posts, not wanting to take a stand on this obviously controversial, yet with little specific rule, or case situation, backing, issue, but I've decided to give it a shot.

Me, too.

I've had many, many, youth level games, where, especially at the beginning of the season, a confused player, after a made basket, will toss it to the official. I've just tossed it back. So, instinctively, I would probably do the same here.

That's my story, short and simple, and I'm sticking to it

Me, too.