Proper Mechanic

[Nevadaref]

Yes, if the Lead marks the 3pt attempt because it came from his primary, then he also gives the successful 3pt goal signal and the Trail will mirror that. If the attempt comes from the Trail's primary, then he will take care of the signal if the goal is made and the Lead does not mirror.

You can find this on page 30 of the 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, if the Lead marks the 3pt attempt because it came from his primary, then he also gives the successful 3pt goal signal and the Trail will mirror that. If the attempt comes from the Trail's primary, then he will take care of the signal if the goal is made and the Lead does not mirror.

You can find this on page 30 of the 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual.

I agree with Nevada. The lead should signal the successful goal and the trail should mirror. This is the only time (that I can think of) when the lead signals for a three-point attempt.

-Josh

[fiasco]

So, if it's in the Lead's area, does the Trail mirror just the successful goal, or does he signal the attempt, too?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So, if it's in the Lead's area, does the Trail mirror just the successful goal, or does he signal the attempt, too?

Just the successful goal.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just the successful goal.

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

The attempt isn't as important as the made goal, from a scorekeeping standpoint. That's why only the made goal is mirrored, to make sure the scorekeepper sees it.

The official that has on-ball coverage knows whether it's a 3-point attempt or not, so if both officials signal the attempt, who's watching off-ball?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

I've done stat keeping for D1 basketball. From my experience, the stats crews generally have an idea of who's call it is. I don't think it's really a problem to be honest.

-Josh

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I've done stat keeping for D1 basketball. From my experience, the stats crews generally have an idea of who's call it is. I don't think it's really a problem to be honest.

-Josh

It is not about knowledge of the table people, it is about who are the table likely to see. Usually the Lead official is not the most likely person to be seen. The idea is to have the Trail (and Center in 3) that is easier to see to always mirror or signal the good three point attempt. And if the Lead is looking a three point shots attempt, they are not likely looking at the things going on in their area. The Lead has most of the players in their primary.

Peace

Originally Posted by fiasco

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt...

I run across many officials with this same thought. Many are under the impression that signaling the "attempt" is just that, but that signal also indicates that you have the shooter up & down (one foot). So in a 2 person game if both officials have the attempt, who's watching off-ball where 70 - 80% of the action takes place?
Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I run across many officials with this same thought. Many are under the impression that signaling the "attempt" is just that, but that signal also indicates that you have the shooter up & down (one foot). So in a 2 person game if both officials have the attempt, who's watching off-ball where 70 - 80% of the action takes place?
Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

I'm not saying that the Trail has the shooter. I'm just saying you can watch your area, know what's going on there, and also see your partner signal the attempt.

Signaling the attempt does not necessarily mean you're not watching your primary.

[mj]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

Ahh yes, mj's pet peeve #86. I pre-game this almost every game I do 3 person. If both the C and the T mark a three pointer, the C should drop it and focus on the flight of the shot and then rebounders. The T then stays with the shooter.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by jdmara

This is the only time (that I can think of) when the lead signals for a three-point attempt.

-Josh

What about on a quick steal or fast break where the trail hasn't recognized the change of possession and is too far behind the play to see if it is a three-point attempt or not. In that case would the Lead give the preliminary three-point indication even if the shot were attempted at the top of the key out of the Leads primary area but in a spot where he could still visually see that it was a three-point attempt?

[zm1283]

I've had a couple veterans tell me that if I'm Lead and I signal, they won't signal at all as Trail and let me have it the whole way.

But going back to what you guys are talking about: If I'm Trail and the Lead signals, should I never mirror the attempt at all, but just mirror the good 3-point shot instead?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

But going back to what you guys are talking about: If I'm Trail and the Lead signals, should I never mirror the attempt at all, but just mirror the good 3-point shot instead?

Asked and answered. See post #7.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

What about on a quick steal or fast break where the trail hasn't recognized the change of possession and is too far behind the play to see if it is a three-point attempt or not. In that case would the Lead give the preliminary three-point indication even if the shot were attempted at the top of the key out of the Leads primary area but in a spot where he could still visually see that it was a three-point attempt?

Someone needs to signal it, and if the T can't, ....

If the T is still in the BC, then the whole FC is the lead's primary.