Question

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

At some point it must cease to be a "thrown ball". When does this occur?

The rule meant only to remove the judgement in determining if the thrown ball was a try or an attempted pass....it was never intended to change when a try or an apparent try ends.

The effect of this rule is, for at least the purpose of determining the number of points scored, to consider a "thrown ball" from behind the 3-point line to be a try whether that was the intent of the thrower or not. The "thrown ball", effectively being a try, ends in the very same manner as a try...

"when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead" (4-41-4).

The point of the case play is to establish that a touch by a team B player doesn't end the try/throw. But that doesn't exclude the possibility that it may have already ended.

While this is not explicitly stated in the rulebook, it is the only conclusion that makes sense in the context of other rules. When this rule is read alone, other conclusions can be imagined, but they are not consistent and don't make any sense.

So, again, when does it cease to be a "thrown ball" for the purposes of 3-points? When the ball is traveling in a path such that it can not enter the basket without being redirected by another player or the floor.

Everything you say is reasonable and logical, but if this was the intent of the change, it seems to require as much, if not more, judgment as it did before.
After all, we are talking about 1 point. A1, at the free throw line, attempts to thread the needle with a bullet pass to A2 as he turns into the lane from the block. Instead, B2 gets a hand on the ball, which is deflected upward and enters the basket. If this pure accident can count two points, I see no reason why the same accident thrown from outside the arc can't count 3.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

After all, we are talking about 1 point. A1, at the free throw line, attempts to thread the needle with a bullet pass to A2 as he turns into the lane from the block. Instead, B2 gets a hand on the ball, which is deflected upward and enters the basket. If this pure accident can count two points, I see no reason why the same accident thrown from outside the arc can't count 3.

this would not be a try for goal it is a pass therefore it can only count as two points as it is directed to the basket from inside the arc.
If the same scenario occured with the pass coming from outside the arc it would still only count two - UNLESS THE OFFICIAL RULED IT A TRY.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

this would not be a try for goal it is a pass therefore it can only count as two points as it is directed to the basket from inside the arc.
If the same scenario occured with the pass coming from outside the arc it would still only count two - UNLESS THE OFFICIAL RULED IT A TRY.

That would be incorrect, as per 5-2-1, and case play 5.2.1 Sit. C.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

That would be incorrect, as per 5-2-1, and case play 5.2.1 Sit. C.

This is last years I believe
so it has changed?

Rule 5
SECTION 2 SCORING
ART. 1 . . . A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown. See 4-5-4.

In NCAA the determination is that if a Thrown ball from behind the arc is deflected by a teammate it is two points period, if the thrown ball had the posobility to enter the basket and is deflected by a team mate it counts 3 if it did not have the posibility to enter the basket it counts two.

so Possibility to enter basket = try
no possibility to enter basket = pass

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

This is last years I believe
so it has changed?

Rule 5
SECTION 2 SCORING
ART. 1 . . . A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown. See 4-5-4.

In NCAA the determination is that if a Thrown ball from behind the arc is deflected by a teammate it is two points period, if the thrown ball had the posobility to enter the basket and is deflected by a team mate it counts 3 if it did not have the posibility to enter the basket it counts two.

so Possibility to enter basket = try
no possibility to enter basket = pass

Nope, it hasn't changed, the key words are in red above. Also, notice the wording that if the try or thrown ball (aka: pass) hits a teammate, it will always count as two points. However, it the pass hits a defender before hitting the floor, it can still count as 3 points. Look at the case play for specific examples.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Nope, it hasn't changed, the key words are in red above. Also, notice the wording that if the try or thrown ball (aka: pass) hits a teammate, it will always count as two points. However, it the pass hits a defender before hitting the floor, it can still count as 3 points. Look at the case play for specific examples.

I do not have the case book here, but I take it what you are saying is basically what the NCAA version covers more clearly =
possibility to enter count it
no chance it is going in call it two?