Officiating Philosophy ?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Look, I understand the sentiment at lower levels. However, unless the league sees fit to put the rule in, I'm not going to do it on my own. It's the leagues' responsibility to either put in or not put in mercy rules. They don't hire officials to make up rules; plain and simple.

Very true. I agree with you on that. Perhaps I need to fine tune my philosophy a bit

-Josh

[mick]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I know I'm gonna get ripped for going with this philosophy but by using this the coach of the team getting beat will be less mad and the coach winning won't mind backing out of it.

By following that leading team, touch foul program, you are possibly rewarding the mediocrity of the losing team's coaches and players.

At those lower levels, I like to officiate to the skills of the better team. If the lesser team cannot keep up, then the lesser team oughta change coaches and players. I won't help them.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by mick

If the lesser team cannot keep up, then the lesser team oughta change coaches and players.

Or schedule comparable teams........

[mick]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Or schedule comparable teams........

Good point. That's another option.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by mick

Good point. That's another option.

I hear all the MAC teams are lining up to schedule Michigan!!

GO GREEN!

[BBall_Junkie]

Here is the way I see it... I always apply the rhythm, speed, balance and quickness philospy to determine what is a foul and what is not a foul. If the contact does not affect any of those elements it is generally not a foul and is considered incidental. If it does then it is a foul. Better teams can play through more contact than weaker teams.

You can not decide to "make" a coach change his coaching strategies.... that is for the administrators (for the kids/ developmental leagues). At the high school level it is generally sorted out in the years to come. There will be a time when the winning coach team is actually the weaker team and the other coach will have a chance to rub his nose in it if he so desires.

[Kingsman1288]

Perhaps I should have made the level of the game clearer. It was a combined 6th and 7th grade team. When the coach of Team A finally backed off the press, Team B actually made it past half court but not much further. The final score differential ended up being 40 points, so my actions didn't cost them a win at all. Not even close. This what not something I arbitrarily did on my own either, my partner and I talked about it at halftime.

So I guess I should have let Team A humiliate Team B?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

Perhaps I should have made the level of the game clearer. It was a combined 6th and 7th grade team. When the coach of Team A finally backed off the press, Team B actually made it past half court but not much further. The final score differential ended up being 40 points, so my actions didn't cost them a win at all. Not even close. This what not something I arbitrarily did on my own either, my partner and I talked about it at halftime.

So I guess I should have let Team A humiliate Team B?

Your job is to officiate the rules of basketball. Nothing more.

Once you start worrying about teams/players getting "humiliated"* you enter into very dangerous territory as an official. Would you call fouls on cleanly blocked shots just because the crowd reacts wildly to a kid getting his $%*& stuffed? Would you call a technical on a kid for posterizing another kid on a dunk?

Just blow the whistle when you see an infraction of the rules as you interpret them. Going outside that scope is a slippery slope you don't want to go down.

Just my $0.02.



*outside of unsportsmanlike conduct, of course.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

So I guess I should have let Team A humiliate Team B?

Is it your job to protect one team from being humiliated? Absolutely not...

I coach HS football...two weeks ago we lost 55-7 to a team that kept their starters in the entire game trying to score lots of points. We didn't stop them...some parents complained to me after the game about what the other team did, and my response was that OUR kids needed to look in the mirror and decide to get better so that wouldn't happen again. This weekend we beat a team 52-14. We scored on our first 4 possessions and I pulled our starting backfield and played the rest of the game with freshmen and sophomores running the ball. Do I tell them to only run 5 yards and then fall down? Hell no...they have worked hard all season and had a chance to earn the reward for that. The officials just called the game. They didn't start nitpicking us because we were ahead, or nitpicking the team two weeks ago that spanked us...it's not your job to "protect" players from being bad.

[Kingsman1288]

Oh well...I guess you live and you learn.

Would I ever do something like this in a HS game, or one that actually counts? No. But the way the game was being played at this level, I felt this was appropriate.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

So I guess I should have let Team A humiliate Team B?

My final regular season game last year was the two defending National Champions in Christian College Division II of the year before - Kentucky Christian vs. Freewill Baptist .
The half time score 48 - 6, there isn't anything you can do, if Kentucky Christian wants to press the entire game and beat them 82 -10 ( final was actually 88 - 24, (Kentucky's defense was horible in the second half). The only thing youcan do is get the ball in play quickly and keep time moving as fast as you can, you make sure that everyone can play through the contact as much as possible and try to keep the whistle in your mouth and get it over with, pray for no disasters, and get off the floor.

Okay that is college - but if you do anything different for either side you are effecting the outcome of the game and that is exactly what you are not supposed to do.

[Y2Koach]

In the first quarter, A3 dunks on B5, complete facial. A3 catches B5 off guard again and dunks on him again, complete humiliation. In the third quarter, A3 drives baselin and B5 again tries to jump and block A3's shot... Another dunk.

Do you call travelling or 3 seconds on A3 to keep B5 from being humiliated again?

At the lower levels, middle school or earlier, I think a 25+ point lead can be determined to be insurmountable by the first few minutes of the second half: the opponents body language, physical/talent discrepancy that would void any tactical adjustments, etc. A coach/league with good sportsmanship should call off the full court press when it is evident.

At the High School levels, my teams have been part of 25 point 2nd half comebacks as well as letting 20+ point leads dwindle (fortunately we did not let them all the way back and won the close games down the stretch), and I've seen games with dramatic lead changes/momentum shifts. I saw a game last year where Team A was losing by 20+ in the first half trying to guard Team B man to man, came out in a sagging zone and won by 5 or 6. At this level, if your team's success if based primarily on full court pressure, I would stay with it unless a team is clearly overmatched with absolutely no hope of going on a run.

I had a team that was horribly overmatched that particular year. When other teams would pull off the press, I would tell the opposing coaches (that i was familiar with) to keep pressing. My guys could not ever duplicate anything close to that type of pressure and athleticism in practice, so it was the best place for them to practice against.

[Coltdoggs]

No issues with anything anyone has said...in fact, I'm loving the dialouge and perspective.

We all have a view of it and bring a unique perspective to this type of thing.

Again, I am allowed to deem contact incidental or not as the official and will always fall back on that. I'm not dealing with a black and white issue of say punching a kid in the nose or picking up a dribble and starting again and can choose to pass on those...I must call something there provided I see it.

Contact between a defender and dribbler is subject to what I see, interpret under my understanding of the rules and if I feel that contact put one of those players at a dis-advantage then I will blow the whistle.

We have all adjusted our calls in games before...if it were getting too physical we tighten up to send a message to the players. We don't let them continue to pound on each other and let tempers escalate.....I would equate my philosophy on this matter to that. Again...only I can determine for myself if contact is incidental or not and perhaps I simply don't feel contact on FCP, up 20+ points is incidental at that juncture.

EDIT FOR: I'm strictly talking about lower level stuff...not HS and in some cases, not 7th/8th grade.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

Oh well...I guess you live and you learn.

A few weeks ago, I had 8th grade Team A up by 24 at the half.
Team A came out pressing hard in the 3rd and at a dead ball, I asked the coach if her team was going to continue pressing the entire game.

She said, "I told them to drop back, but they get so excited, they keep forgetting."

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

... I am allowed to deem contact incidental or not as the official and will always fall back on that.
... Contact between a defender and dribbler is subject to what I see, interpret under my understanding of the rules and if I feel that contact put one of those players at a dis-advantage then I will blow the whistle.

this is pretty much how we call every game is it not?

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

We have all adjusted our calls in games before...if it were getting too physical we tighten up to send a message to the players. We don't let them continue to pound on each other and let tempers escalate.....I would equate my philosophy on this matter to that.

This is what we do every game we set a tone and the players play to it. So why would you change that philosophy for any game?